You would have hoped the government would put resources in so tourist boards could do this, but I am not sure that’s the message they want to send @hands
Obviously the government has never had any cause or intent to constrain tourism. The government have provided resources and clear advice, I have provided several links. The problem is people who wanted to block Brexit, and the media, have spent nearly 4 years deliberately spreading misinformation and fear so the correct knowledge is drowned out. If they can now stop spreading such lies the correct information has a chance of getting out. The American source is useful because it’s from the tourists’ point of view from a neutral country.
Noone should be abused of course. On Brexit eve in Bristol several venues were targeted for hosting leaver parties by remainers. A band was threatened, a pub was threatened so had to close their private function room and another pub was graffitied with ‘F*** Brexit’. Many professionals have been unable to say they support leave for fear of their jobs.
Migrant workers/immigrants from the EU are another topic. 2.7 million of the 3.5 have already got their right to settlement, and have until next June to apply. Only 6 have been refused for repeated crimes. I can’t speak for elsewhere but here in west Bristol EU people are very welcomed. We have to also remember countries like Hungary and Poland have strengthened their countries, people want to stay and their country wants them home (we’ve taken nearly a million Poles. I’ve met dozens and they’ve all been great so I’m not surprised). Sadly countries like Romania have lost many of their educated youth to the EU which creates problems for them like villages with no doctors.
Move to Spain. Better quality wine for lots less money 
Sadly, this is very true. The subject of Brexit has been discussed often with our European guests, they usually bring it up and once they find out we moved to Spain because of Brexit, have openly discussed their feelings in respect of the UK.
The majority believe that the UK does not want visitors from European countries. Many of these folks have visited the UK in the past and had a great time, they now unsure if that is likely to happen again. Other than work related travel, not many appear to have the UK in their sights for holidays in the immediate future.
The exception is Scotland. It’s surprising how many of them have a decent knowledge of the different attitudes towards Europe within the UK. They are aware that Scotland is pro Europe and that the people are very different to other parts of the UK.
The Isle of Skye and Edinburgh are the two places mentioned most often, with quite a few folks mentioning that they are hoping to visit Edinburgh again, soon. Edinburgh is also a popular destination with the Spanish, although gods know why!
I can see why lots of English and Welsh hosts will be seeing a reduction in bookings from European guests, not their fault directly, but the harsh reality of how the UK is perceived by many now.
JF
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Just a wee correction here. The current Turkish government has been democratically elected since 2002, unfortunately. They may (in some folks eyes) behave badly, but they are the choice of the people.
JF
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Try going out into the working class areas of the city with friends from the EU @Jess1 and if you have friends who are perceived to be ‘foreign’ or non-white, you will have a different experience. In middle class areas of the city overt racism tends to be more hidden.
Having said that my nephew has been racially abused in your area on at least three occasions (because he is visibly not white, not because of the EU issue).
I have had Polish friends abused and threatened in Bristol, when people hear their accents both in the centre and in the north and east of the city.
Your comments about our media are somewhat strange, the vast majority of red top and broadsheets are pro-Brexit. As are many radio presenters.
It is interesting that your concerns are more around buildings being ‘threatened’ by those objecting to a leavers party, rather than the actually physical and emotional abuse of people. You have four sentences around a one -off incident at a pub or two and a dismissive ‘no-one should be abused of course’ in reference to the horrific three years of mental, emotional and physical abuse my friend endured because people thought she was Polish.
I absolutely respect people’s opinions to have different views, but it’s a shame that you don’t want to acknowledge the increase in racism and people being unsettled that has been brought about by Brexit and the impact that is having on tourism and people from the EU visiting.
http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CSI34_hate-crime.pdf
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Speaking in very general terms, it’s areas like this in England where you are most likely to encounter racial abuse, especially in relation to jobs, housing and so on.
As immigrants ourselves (abhor the terms “expat”) in Spain my OH has been subject to racial abuse on at least two occasions, both funnily enough at the budget supermarket Lidl, “why don’t you go back to your own country” being the term used.
I do wonder how one woman explained away the large dent in her car caused by a shopping trolley.
Fortunately, as it stands these I believe were isolated incidents.
JF
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Yes I agree that elected governments should be respected. However there is suggestion that the election was not fair or democratic, there is great censorship and of course thousands of political prisoners apart from any military etc actions I might not like.
Anyway I guess we have our own problems to think about in the UK, what with Islamic terrorism in London etc.
I already said I don’t support any personal abuse. I’m sure xenophobic etc comments are sometimes made, thankfully none of my guests have suffered such. I have a Polish one atm.
Actually it’s not just buildings remainers attack it’s people too. Remainers have spent years abusing leavers in a classist and ageist way as thick, low information, fascist etc. I would say that’s the main direction of the abuse. On Twitter recently there have been remainer calls for elderly Brexit voters to be wiped out by the Corona virus, to lose their jobs etc.
Actually it’s the opposite with media bias. Remainers have the entire BBC, most of itv, channel 4, the Guardian, Mirror etc. Yes the Telegraph, Sun and sometimes the Times are pro Brexit but nothing like the reach of television. Anyway after nearly 4 years the referendum is finally being enacted. In some ways it’s now a relief to worry about things like Huawei, trade and northern rail rather than our parliament being turned upside down.
Let’s keep on dispelling remainer lies that the UK is in any way closed to Europeans. The UK has left a political entity the EU, which may well even recede, not Europe.
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How can an election be unfair?
There have always been allegation of vote rigging in Turkish elections, it’s just the way it is. The most complaints are usually made by the losing party, hence the CHP screaming fix in various districts and the AKP screaming fix in others. Bottom line is that Erdoğan still manages to bring in enough votes.
The most prominent controversy recently being for the position of mayor for Istanbul, where the ruling party complained and they had a rerun. Made no difference, same guy won.
As regards political prisoners, it’s a way too complex topic for here.
JF
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OSCE weren’t entirely happy with the election, but as you say it’s up to the Turkish people. The original point was the conditions provided to migrants by the EU via Turkey could be more compassionate. It’s incredible how those critical of the EU are labelled as racist when the EU’s record is poor and their institutions almost totally devoid of diversity. Anyway up to Britain to make a good job of things now.
you forgot to mention the Daily Mail and the Daily Express - together with the Sun these constitute a large majority of the newspapers read in the UK and all have pursued an “Exit” course. You mention about “Remainers” calling “Exiteers” "thick, etc. My feeling is that this is part of the “fake news” made up by Exit-supporting media to support their cause - “look what they’re saying about you”. It is a fact that people of higher educational attainment were more likely to vote Remain than Exit, and people of low educational attainment were more likely to vote Exit than Remain - make of that what you will.
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Abuse of leavers is definitely not fake news it’s found in the real life experience of leavers, explicit in social media and implicit in msm. Yes the leaver demographic is more working class, and of course that means less likelihood of higher education. Much of the abuse is classist in nature. Of course there’s little correlation between education levels and intelligence, there’s no fool like an educated fool, and the education system is heavily biased towards remainerism, identity politics etc.
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[quote=“Jess1, post:52, topic:35517, full:true”]
Abuse of leavers is definitely not fake news[/quote]
True - just as the death threats received by prominent, mainly female Remainers wasn’t fake news either.
“there’s little correlation between education levels and intelligence”
Really? - that would take the education world by storm if there was the merest hint of truth in it! CHECK YOUR FACTS!
“there’s no fool like an educated fool” - how do you define “fool”? - what does this hackneyed cliché actually mean?
“the education system is heavily biased towards remainerism” - again, could you provide evidence for this? Is, say, teaching kids French evidence of Remainerism?
As Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
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Unsurprisingly there’s more of a link with social class and access to HE than intelligence. That’s quite apart from the fact academic skills are a very narrow measure of intelligence, as I’m sure you’re aware there are other forms of intelligence such as creativity and business acumen; Bill Gates was a college dropout.
You’d better quiz Margaret Attwood if you think her concept of an educated fool is a mere cliche, but it’s understood to mean a lack of sense. Here we are in post mega HE expansion Britain with huge numbers of graduates working in coffee shops and call centres with no roof of their own over their heads.
I think you were harsh to apply the Mark Twain quote to yourself as you curiously mention French teaching as evidence of remainerism, but by way of evidence a Times HE supplement survey in 2016 found 90% of staff supported remain and HE leaders issued a statement urging students to vote remain. This is quite apart from the brainwashing that has occurred in classrooms, against the UN convention on the rights of the child re an education free from the promotion of political ideology. Adieu.
Hmmm. My reading of Malcolm’s post found only irony, but then as a remainer, what would I know?
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It’s sad that here in England (and I mean England because I’ve not found it in Scotland or Ireland) clever people are frequently accused of having no “common sense” - with no definition offered of what “common sense” is, but with the implication being made that people who are not quite so clever have this “common sense” in abundance. Is it a type of envy? Again, it’s only in this country that you can be accused of being “too clever by half”. Can somebody tell me, please, what do some English people see as being wrong with being clever?
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I’ve read your post Malcolm, thoughtfully, and need/will give more thought to it, because I think I need to reflect on what you say in different ways. My local experiences in the last four years, my life experiences, and etc etc etc. I will do so and be back with what I hope might make sense.
I sound pompous. I should have said “some sense”.
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It was a snide implication that leavers might believe French teaching was evidence of remainerism, as I’m sure you well know. That fails to qualify for the definition of irony.
There’s a huge appreciation of cleverness or intelligence in England; it’s been quite abundant as it happens. There is though a cultural resistance to all forms of boasting, irrelevance and pretension, and this is what’s referred to by phrases such as no common sense and too clever by half. Intelligence is after all the ability to apply skills and knowledge. We’re still influenced by Darwinian ideas of adaptation. Scots are perhaps even more practically orientated, with their concept of being canny.
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That is too offensive by half. What happened to adieu then?
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