How to sue AirBnB in small claims court

43

Smart policy. I think there was a fundamental difference in the realities of my guest and myself on even the existence of a RUBBER training pistol.

ME: Live in most violent city in US.
Show my female and male guests if concerned how to resist a gun attack.
Lend them vigilante whistles (120db) if concerned or out late at night.

GUEST: From quiet suburbia.
Thought Baltimore was so so nice (surface impression) and underrated.
Kind of clueless about how PRO-GUEST it is to not brush their safety under the rug.
Doesn’t get what risks she and others face.

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44

So is the claim against Airbnb or the women who made the review?

45

Just to clarify as this is an international forum @PuppyLover when you talk about “local local jurisdiction’s requirements” - are you referring to the US?

46

I thought if you have guns on your Airbnb listing you need to declare it on the listing?

47

Well done for presenting your case so well @PuppyLover

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48

Short answer, yes I was thinking of local U.S. jurisdiction.

Long answer – Section 21 of the ToS has some verbiage about how in China, disputes can be submitted to a Chinese trade arbitration group. All “businesses” (hosts, I take it) outside the U.S. other than China must (apparently) file in Ireland? See:

If you are acting as a business, you agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Irish courts.

Thanks for your kind words, that was not an easy day for me!

OH WAIT – important edit: I am wondering now if “businesses” means – litigation by a legal entity like for ex. the City of London – such that in effect, this wording may leave a loophole for an individual host anywhere to litigate in the local equivalent of a small claims court???

I’m wondering if European hosts see a different ToS with something specific …

At this point, I’m honestly just guessing …

49

I think guns that are visible or accessible to guests need to be declared, stowed-away guns, not. Let’s see:

If a weapon is in plain sight or discoverable by guests, hosts are required to indicate its presence in their House Rules.

(link)

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50

I think the bottom line on real firearms is that if a guest discovered one and you hadn’t disclosed it you would be booted off Airbnb. That’s what Airbnb thought had happened in this case. “Discoverable” is an interesting word choice. I have a firearm, it’s in my part of the house and a guest couldn’t discover it unless they broke into my part of the house, or walked in my unlocked home and then went to where the firearm is in my bedroom and “discovered” it. Or what if an airbnb guest was present and for some reason I went to the front yard with my gun, let’s say to confront someone who was assaulting someone in my front yard (I wouldn’t do this but some hosts would) and in that way the guest “discovered” I had a gun and complained.

This is a classic case of rights in conflict. Those who don’t like guns and don’t want to be around them have rights, gun owners who do Airbnb in their homes have rights. As I said I’m very interested to hear how the Airbnb proceeding goes. As a former government teacher and someone interested in gun related issues it’s fascinating.

51

Yes, it’s one for the ages IMO.

And switching gears to thank @Debthecat.

I do have an update of sorts – not shown on the video is what happened after the trial ended, and the judge left the room.

The court reporter and the bailiff stood there in complete silence, you could sense they were thinking, Wow.

I could feel the rage of the defense attorney and was a bit nervous being near him. He said, "Be thinking of what you are willing to settle for, because this will be appealed, and the trial will be de novo [completely new.]

I said “Okey doke, just tell me when and where,” but thought to myself, "Dude, that was a complete and total dumpster fire, what do you mean, ‘what I’ll settle for?’ "

Sure enough, I have a notice of an appeal! Jeez-o flip. I talked to a super-affordable attorney that the self-help court office gave me the number to. He says I CAN file an “amended complaint” seeking more money, so we’ll see how the parties like them apples.

Although, it now occurs to me, I have a default judgment due to the defendant’s non-appearance (even though she sent counsel). I don’t think the lawyer was listening to that – you have to vacate a default (apparently) to be able to appeal.

I may need more legal advice on whether to outwait the 30 day deadline to file a vacate-default motion, and then try to get the appeal invalidated, OR file an amended complaint for more money, because the meter is running still, on damages.

52

@Flyboy, great question. I filed separate small claims against the guest (that is shown in the video) and AirBNB. The AirBNB claim is being heard Wednesday.

I think I will need a significantly different approach for the AirBNB hearing. I’ve extracted my phone records for August for 2 futile hours with Air CSX, and will enter also (note to self: look for evidence rules on labeling this) two ExTENSIVE email followups, also futile, to get everything corrected.

My theme will basically be, “I was told on five or so separate occasions to just dry up and blow away, and to stop contacting AirBNB, everything was final and done, and to this day I STILL have NEVER been told by AirBNB what evidence they thought they had to boot me.”

“At first I thought the guest had a problem with my sewing scissors on a magnetic strip above the machine, I was completely baffled your honor.” (true)

To explain this timeline – I was in the dark when Trust and Safety said I had an unsecured weapon, because I hadn’t seen the guest’s review yet! I hadn’t reviewed the guest so couldn’t see her claim of an unsecured weapon, and was wondering if this was about my sewing scissors, or MAYBE the baseball bats behind the front and back door …

Side note: When AirBNB’s contract attorney called, she tried to pretend that I was due lower damages because “can’t you understand that it takes time to investigate these things.”

I was quietly livid. To this day Air has not “investigated” anything. It is only trying to make a claim go away in a cost-effective manner.

Without the threat of a lawsuit that they HAVE to settle in a timely manner or lose the ability to operate in my state, nothing would have ever happened.

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53

That’s interesting. It’s also interesting that the defendant went to the expense of hiring an attorney but apparently he wasn’t competent enough to tell her she needs to appear to have a chance to win? How hard is it going to be to collect your money?

I’m also interested in your plan going forward. If you win against Airbnb, are you demanding they re-instate you to the platform. And if they do, what protection do you have against them burying you in the search results or disappearing you from time to time so that you don’t get booked. I’m curious about how how Airbnb’s stance that no one has a right to operate their business on their platform squares with the law.

54

The video is riveting!! I’m not even a fan of guns, but I squarely fall on the host side here - it wasn’t a damn gun! If I was so concerned I would have either 1) said something to the host 2) called Airbnb or even left early. It is Airbnb’s policy to NOT allow non-factual reviews. I do understand the guest’s concern, but a simple comment to you would have cleared the whole matter up.

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55

Another MASSIVE blunder: Her attorney is California born and bred, and now lives in a suburb maybe 30 mins out of town, in the D.C. direction. Fail!! This is SMALLTIMORE, you HAVE to hire an attorney from literally the nearest attorney-patronized cafe to the actual courthouse. I’m not kidding. They had BETTER be on a first name basis with the judge (I’ve seen this at Liquor Board hearings). When I saw that a) she was going to defend and b) with a non-insider, I thought, OKAY!

And further, I have wondered from the beginning, is this a hit job by AirBNB or a competitor? It’s just so DUMB to not apologize and rectify the situation. The entire situation is bizarre. I’m prominent in local legislative efforts for STRs, so who knows.

There are massive amounts of hoops to go thru, suffice to say, winning an initial verdict is maybe 25% of the battle. But I knew this going in. If I have to put a lien on her house and renew it in 15 years, after three tedious rounds of paperwork, no sweat, I’ll just calendar it. I am patient.

GREAT question. I put that in the complaint, but I was only doing that to fake an interest. Then their attorney called and said “You are back on the platform.” Thinking I would be ecstatic. And I was pretty blase. But after thinking overnight I thought, My great guests were super great, so let’s see if I can get some of my mojo back.

Well two items on your point:

  1. It took till YESTERDAY to really get reinstated, but I could FINALLY see my listings, and lo and behold, I got a booking yesterday!
  2. The defamatory review is STILL UP! Check it out:
    CharmCityHomestay:Oasis Suite-RelocationAdvice 4U!
    See 2nd review as of this moment.

Great minds think alike. In fact, I thought for about 10 days now that I was “shadow-banned,” i.e., my dashboard looks good, but I can’t find my listings in search results. (Also raises the related point, … I’ve lost 7 months of valuable reviews, so I’m dead in the water, momentum wise, in terms of search results.)

YES. yes yes yes yes yes.

In one of AirBNB’s scripted replies to my carousel of emails, where they said basically, “no rights. get lost. don’t reply,” I think I replied in a moment of frustration that dealing with them was like dealing with an Aldous Huxley nightmare. I’ll have to look that up. Flowery rhetoric aside … as posters upthread noted … To what extent do you give up EVERY last element of common law fairness in dealing with a company when you sign an agreement?

Contracts I believe are legit if you give up a reasonable amount of certain rights, but not every last single one such that a reasonable person is thinking, “Whoa up, that’s just not right or fair.”

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56

Thanks so much for that detailed reply and for taking the time to share what you are learning with the forum. This is the most interesting thread (now that you added to it) that I’ve read here in months.

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57

I think she was just looking for attention and to be honest, American culture lately rewards "social justice whistle blowers’. She just didn’t stop to comprehend how this might possibly affect you! After that though it must just be pure stubbornness. The only way I could see this being a hit job on your Airbnb is if it was very personal like your neighbor wanted you to stop or something.

You’ve learned hosting and gained a lot of experience though so you will be able to regain your search rank quickly now that you’re back on. I hear new listings get promoted higher in search results and if the bad review is still up… it might not be a terrible idea to just copy your listing and make a new one. The reviews will still be under your account but the listing will have zero reviews. When I stay at Airbnb’s I see this all the time from Superhosts. Presumably they got kicked out of the last apartment building and just rented another apartment and moved their listing there. I have no hesitation to book new listings from experienced hosts.

58

@KKC

Thank you humbly. I would like to help anyone else who ends up in a dark, unilluminated dungeon of confusion in similar circumstances.

I am getting some pushback from a confidante on whether the video makes (certain parties) look bad.

I am trying to explain to the confidante – I bear no grudges against anyone involved. Just trying to help other hosts … because when I started to look at my options, I found NOTHING except a very buried and incomplete Reddit thread that indicated a small claim had led to a pre-trial settlement.

Also, in my residual pool of good feelings for how AirBNB used to be, I firmly believe that opening the door wide open to small claims will help Air become a better company. (not being sarcastic) I found a blog somewhere that noted paradoxically, lawsuits can help companies correct gross problems and actually run better. I do believe there is something to this.

Air has a 1-star rating on TrustPilot and it’s because NO one gets away from the company unscarred if you stay with it long enough.

EDIT:

Air tries to pretend on one hand it is “just a listing platform,” keeping out of any details of content posted, but on the OTHER hand, it is judge/jury and executioner without due process when content is posted that creates any friction.

So Air – figure it out – which are you? If you are just a listing platform, with cr@p CSX when disputes arise, just get off the hosts’ backs. If you ARE a company with policies you consider sacrosanct, offer due process, appeals, and lawsuits to challenge same.

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59

This story is very interesting, and I do hope the that @PuppyLover keeps us up-to-date, but I do feel like giving another sound…

Am I the only one to think that this is a really really hard judgement? US$ 5000.00 for leaving a review she herself, most likely, considered to be 100% honest and true … :scream::scream::scream:… This makes me afraid of leaving any review, doesn’t matter as a guest or as a host :flushed::flushed::flushed:. This is just outrageous and seriously makes me question the judge.

Although I fully recognize that there were big consequences for the host, I don’t think that the guest is to blame, or at least not to the extent of a whopping US$ 5000.00. She saw what she believed to be a firearm, she was not knowledgeable about firearms and probably too afraid to investigate it. She decided to stay until the end of her reservation and then felt she should report this to AirBnB. She has every right to do this, doesn’t she? She also left a review that she believed was reflecting reality. Is there any reason to think she did this with bad intent? She was asked to rectify, but maybe she didn’t know how to contact AirBnB to rectify this or maybe she just truly felt that what the host said didn’t reflect the truth.

Even if it was a rubber toy, I still think there is some negligence from the host. Should we keep this kind of thing visible next to our door? I would at least call it an error in judgment.

The judge… What to say? If guests and hosts are at risk of having to pay US$ 5000.00 for a review that they believe to be true, this is a problem for all review systems. Also, if I understood well, the host’s listing was shut down because the guest privately reported the listing to AirBnB, not because she wrote a public review. This also means that the loss of income wasn’t because of any defamatory review. Why wasn’t this taken into account? Lousy / lazy lawyer I would say.

AirBnB… OMG :scream::scream::scream: ! Their reaction to ONE guest reporting something is just TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS ! Most certainly if the host is that experienced and has made sooooo many guests happy, they should give her the benefit of the doubt, try to investigate, maybe call the host to get rid of the rubber toy and just leave it with that. I do hope that AirBnB gets a HUGE maximum smack on their but. This behavior towards long term high quality hosts is just not acceptable, and putting guests at risk of paying $US 5000.00 because they leave a review is also unacceptable. I hope the guests sues them too.

60

I wonder when this is going to show up on social media sites…if it hasn’t already…

And there it is!

61

@guthend the 5K is not for leaving the review. It is for refusing to edit the review when she was told it was a rubber gun. It does not seem excessive to me. It is small claims court.

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62

I’m 100% sure I read the story of PuppyLover’s situation posted by the guest on some other website. I don’t remember where it was, though, and maybe it has since been taken down.