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UPDATE in case anyone wants to file a small claims lawsuit against AirBNB:
YES you CAN file a small claim. See this fine print in the ToS under Section 19:
Parties retain the right to seek relief in small claims court for certain claims, at their option;
So if your dispute is under your state’s small claims limit, say $5,000 to $20,000, you can file a small claim and you do not need to go to arbitration.
In addition, you can further sue your guest for damages, a defamatory review, etc., separate to AirBNB.
I think it’s interesting that I can’t find a single story online of anyone ever suing Airbnb. There are people asking and saying they are going to but either they don’t follow through or they don’t publish the results.
I read it and read it and read it, and finally concluded that it means (bottom line), if your claim meets your local jurisdiction’s requirements for being below a certain amount, you can file.
I think it’s interesting that I can’t find a single story online of anyone ever suing Airbnb.
Nor could I, in deep deep searching, barring some indications by posters on Reddit that they successfully filed claims and that AirBNB settled prior to trial.
There are people asking and saying they are going to but either they don’t follow through or they don’t publish the results.
Exactly. My supposition is that AirBNB works very very very hard to achieve settlements prior to trial and non-disclosure agreements.
The article notes that AirBNB would NOT pay out the vast majority of claimed damages without an NDA, until the Observer did some investigative reporting.
Not sure about other jurisdictions, but in Australia a company cannot override your statutory rights, which include the right to take legal action in the event of damages or loss. The amount is immaterial.
Unfortunately, not in most states in the US. Arbitration clauses are embedded inside almost every cell phone/credit card/installment purchase agreement.
U.S. law varies on this point, from what I can tell. Sometimes when you sign a contract, you do agree to give away certain rights, but depending on the details, in general you are not bound by aspects of Terms of Service that greatly conflict with public policy.
Also, from what I can tell, the Supreme Court has ruled that you CAN go to court after unsatisfactory arbitration in certain cases.
Yes this is correct. Many new users sign up expressly to spam the forum with affiliate links or links to their websites. So someone needs to be a member for a bit and participate some before being allowed to post a link, which @NordlingHouse very much appreciates.
Not insurmountable though. Gateway computers (remember them, haha) lost quite a few cases against their clauses. So many so, that they are prime examples used in law school classes. Not a good way to be famous, lol!
INDEED. I have a trial Wednesday against AirBNB itself for delisting me, following an earlier trial against the guest who left a defamatory review.
In the interests of helping others in the same boat, I just finished editing the audio transcript of the trial against the guest. It went pretty well given that, unusually perhaps for a defamation complaint, the damages were very clearcut, as AirBNB delisted me, leading to very quantifiable loss of income.
You can watch from the beginning to see the nuts and bolts of these trials, or skip to 8:00 to see the judge get irritated with the defendant’s attorney, and then madder and madder and madder.
PuppyLover I listened for a few minutes and then skipped to 8:00 and listened for a few minutes. A lot of common sense coming from the judge there. I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that. You seem like an excellent host and it isn’t right that your income was cut off by a stupid thing like that.
I actually have quite a few firearms on premises on my Airbnb but they’re all securely locked up. Guests don’t know about that because I know exactly how weird some people can get about guns. I used to work as an armored car guard. Firearms are required for the job. I’d pick up deposits from a particular McDonald’s restaurant and the manager would ask me to stand so that my hip with the gun on it was facing away from her because the gun made her uncomfortable. Some of the employees there would ask me if the gun was real. At first I thought they were just being smart asses so I told them “Nah its fake it only shoots pepper spray filled paint balls” and they actually believed me and seemed extremely relieved! haha. This happened quite regularly at all kinds of places. The schools never said anything even though by law, we weren’t allowed to have guns in schools. We were allowed to have guns in police stations and sheriff’s offices however but sometimes a random sheriff would have an issue with it too even though they were the ones who issued us the permits to do the jobs we did. So the lesson I learned is that you always keep your ownership or possession of firearms a secret if possible while not on duty. I bet 90% of homes around here have firearms so it really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone and yet I could see what happened at your place happening here. Some people just feel irrationally uncomfortable about guns because the only thing they know about guns is what they see on TV. So if they know there’s a gun around its about the same as having a Star Trek phaser to them.
One ridiculous point to me is that she said it was a 9mm hand gun. Did it even say that anywhere on the rubber gun? The pictures don’t look like it. That sounds like complete imagination. It’s a rubber model of a .45 ACP 1911 to start with. I’m not sure if that particular point came up in the hearing but good lord if she can spot the caliber of a gun why can’t she tell its made from rubber?!
EXACTLY Mexican.
There is no lettering or numbering on the rubber training pistol.
And if you are such an uber-expert that, by the shape alone, you think you ‘know’ it’s a 9mm, then you ALSO know it’s rubber!
Thank you. I’m a lot calmer now than I was for the first trial (complete basket case).
An AirBNB (contract? not staff?) attorney called offering to settle for $3.5K (I had asked the max small claim of $5K.)
I said I will only settle for $10K + no signing of a non-disclosure agreement.
She gulped and said um, $10K, uh, isn’t that a lot more than your claim?
I said yep, I actually WANT to go to trial and GET THIS ON THE RECORD,* and I feel I have a strong case, PLUS the home-field advantage in our District Court is … powerful. The judges don’t just work here, they don’t just live here, they aren’t just from our state, they were BORN here.
I’m not saying that they are unprofessional, only that you will NOT get shafted because you are the “little guy” going up against an attorney.
mainly because of the ENDLESS dirge of mistreatment of hosts one reads about here, and on the official hosts forum, and in the media, and it all gets swept under the rug because either hosts don’t know they can go to Small Claims, and if they do, they end up signing NDAs.
