Help - Guests demand refund for their grocery bill

I’ll bet you a box of chocolates that they leave you a review.

They might be tenants muddy. You don’t know the law in Phoenix and neither do I. What the host doesn’t want is the guests researching local law to see what their rights are. Guests are obviously articulate and smart, based on the writing sample provided.

I’ll stop bugging everyone with my point of view, but I do NOT think these guests are scammers. I do not think they’ll complain about everything. There’s nothing in the story to suggest this, to my mind.

I think the host is angry and defensive and unable to see the other’s sides point of view right now.
Look, I have definitely been there. I could bore you for hours.

But as someone on this chat board once said, “It’s called hospitality, not hostility.” I quote this to myself from time to time :slight_smile:

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You appear not to have read the original post here. They moved in August 1st and started complaining and asking for compensation almost right away. I doubt that guests who don’t have a lease and have only been in residence less than 3 weeks qualify as tenants anywhere.

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That is true and good to remember but it is not the conversation you started.

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Well this may be helpful:
https://www.azlawhelp.org/viewquestions.cfm?mc=3&sc=19&qid=38936

Note that the guests told host they do not wish to leave.

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The problem in the US is the eggs are required to be washed, which washes off the biofilm that keeps bacteria from penetrating the shell. Then the eggs do need to be refrigerated. When I was in spain there would sometimes be bits of feathers on the eggs, so I knew it was ok to leave them out.

RR

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I think the OP is expending waaaay too much mental energy on this particular problematic guest.

As you’ve already signaled you are willing to enter negotiations by asking for receipts for the food, at this point I would just comp them a night and send a message that is worded to end the back and forth, in which the guest is now invested to find fault and score a “win.”

“Upon review of our correspondence and my documentation, I am pleased to refund you one night’s base rate. I consider the matter of the prompt refrigerator replacement now closed, and hope you enjoy the remainder of your stay. Thank you.”
Lesson learned – always get an OK from the guest on the timing of maintenance or furnishings/equipment replacement. I think it would be OK to add to your message “Apologies that the scheduling was inconvenient for you.”

I long ago gave up trying to read my guests’ minds, but the kindest interpretation I have is that if they are between homes and moving, it is a stressful time. Some people compensate by attempting to assert control over other, minor matters.

I recognize Coyote’s LTR experience, but I think STR is different and I do not agree with the no gifting advice. When my guests experience inconveniences – water main shutoff and A/C repair are two recent examples – I provide a tote bag with local goodies, thanking them for their patience. My note makes NO admission that I was at fault; it praises them for being great guests. I’ve gotten excellent reviews from those guests.

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:rofl: i’ve had a few eggs explode. every now and then the chooks will decide to make a whole new home in which to lay their eggs, and it takes us a while to find the cache. if it’s winter, well that’s fine, we’ll float the eggs to test but they are fine for 3 weeks anyway (gross! but city people eat their eggs around that point, i’d generally only bake cakes with older eggs). in summer we won’t bother, we usually toss them in a paddock and see who can get one to explode :smiling_face: that’s how we entertain ourselves in the country.

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Terrific advice from dpromva! I love this wording.

One big lesson being a host or landlord teaches you is that other folks look at things differently than you do.

The customer’s not always right, but they are always the customer.

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I’m oddly jealous. Adding this to my bucket list…

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How does cancelling work? Do you mean that you can just cancel a reservation while someone is in there and they then have to move? What if they refuse? I’m sure police won’t help out as they will say it’s a “civil matter”…

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sorry what do you mean how does it work? @Letsgo - this is a basic that all hosts should know :grinning:

read up about host cancellations on the Airbnb Help website

in summary you cancel, Airbnb fines you and blocks the dates. If you have SH status you will lose it.

you tell the guest to leave. if they don’t - they are trespassing.

alternatively you could try and get Airbnb to do a penalty free cancellation if the booking fits their terms for this.

Recap of issues and NEW ONE!!

Okay, after 4 days from start of their check-in, when all was reported to be good and I met the husband in the home and he reported all looked and felt good, the following occurred night 4:

  1. Guest reported HVAC locked and was miserably hot at 73 degrees (outside temps 78). I didn’t realize system was on range lock and unlocked at 3 AM. Temps were at 72. He confirmed by 6 AM that it was unlocked and cooling fine.

  2. Day 5 - HVAC Nest System was fiddled with by him trying to clear out all prior settings. It must have been on Eco Set which goes up to 76 when all are away and cools when he returns. Fixed and no issues since.

  3. Day 4-5 - At same complaint of item 2, guest also reported that they found TWO knats flying in the drain of the master bathtub and a few tiny dead bugs round the tile. Felt house was dirty as wife used vacuum and felt there was far too much dirt picked up in the vacuum for the house to be properly clean. We had two weeks of incredible monsoons here in AZ and much more activity bug wise. They have a dog in the house. No one ever reported bugs. I immediately called bug service and bug service arrive to spray inside and outside whatever they wanted sprayed. Tenant is offered to have AirBNB find them alternative lodging if unhappy. THEY REFUSE AND SAY THEY WILL STAY.

  4. Day 10-11 - Guest complains to AirBNB that my listing is misleading and has a noisy refrigerator. I install a new refrigerator Day 13, with notice. Delivery window is limited but they are complaining to AirBNB and I’m trying to maintain quick response to their complaints. Tenant said all was good then two days LATER request full refund of they last grocery bill.

  5. DAY 19 - Guest asks my son to let him borrow a ladder while he was doing the landscaping work on Fridays. He did not have a ladder at the time. Son had a long list of jobs that day and did not tell me until Day 20.

  6. DAY 20 - My son finally tells me Guest asked for a ladder. I reach out to both guests on AirBNB and by text to ask if he needed a ladder and if so, WHY. He tells me the following verbatim:

“We did. A smoke alarm started chirping tow days ag. It was tolerable at first but last night at around 8 it increased to multiple alarms and chirps to about two chirps a minute. That lasted unfortunately ALL NIGHT. At 5 AM I went to Home Depot and rented [later he disclosed he bought a $275 ladder planning to return it] a ladder and removed the chipping alarms/ detectors [ALL 7 of them!]. Our daughter was able to sleep thank goodness but neither Sam or I could. sam is sleeping now and it’s quiet. I will buy new batteries, replace the old ones, and reconnect the clams today before returning the ladder.”

I asked WHY he did not text me when the first smoke detector started chirping and why he thought the noise would just go away if ignored? It is a wired system. If one goes, it signals you need to check. He NEVER TEXTED ME. I told him we are on way over to bring batteries and rental the smoke detectors as this is now a health and safety issue and he should not be tampering with my entire smoke detector system.

Here was the text while I was enroute:

“Well D, as I mentioned to you in Peron when we first met, we prefer our privacy and to be unbothered during our stay. Then, as you know, we have had multiple inconveniences in our short stay and your solutions seemed to have only inconvenienced us further. If you insist on coming, lease call when you arrive. My wife is still sleeping.”

I asked further why he would tamper and he just said he didn’t want us there. We installed all the batteries and I had brought a new smoke detector in case of an issue. All seemed to work once new batteries installed. He told me he may leave sooner than end of month but certainly will not extend his stay though he needs two more months due to house not being ready to move. He still brought up the HVAC being locked though at the same temp has he had the next day, 72 degrees. The couple of dead bugs that crawled in perhaps on his dogs back, I’ll never know, but made his wife complain now a couple times to AirBNB. I think this couple wants only money as icing issues just highlights issues and AirBNB has deleted all their complaints against me as I proved rapid response and have pictures, video clips and texts showing.

Don’t think there is any way to win with this couple. Wholly unfriendly. Wife has only responded to me twice in the entire rental and nearly refused to say hello while fixing batteries in smoke detectors. I have noted in my calendar dates of installation of new batteries and will make it a process to replace every couple years. I have a pest company but cannot guaranty that there will not be a single insect inside the house.

I clean the house but cannot guarantee that if you use a vacuum after the 5 or six times we go over the house that there will not be SOME dust still and I do not steam carpets between each guest. I think they are obsessive.

I am open to learn and to change my perspective. Thank you all or your valuable feedback. I am always learning.

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What a debacle and what unpleasant people these are. This is why it’s best to get rid of these types Asap. It only gets worse.

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in Australia, by law, the smoke detectors get new batteries every year, or at the start of every new tenancy. you’ve reminded me that i’ve no clue when i last changed ours so i’m going to make sure it’s done this week.

These people are complainers AND are clearly setting out to get a refund of some sort out of you. I would keep offering to terminate their stay with a full refund of the unused dates. The more they choose to stay the better off you are with CS if this becomes a dispute.

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Maybe it’s just me… but if someone would rather listen to a house-wide network of smoke alarms chirp for more than a day than have the landlord step inside with a ladder for 15 minutes, I’ve got to wonder what the guest is hiding in there?

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As I’ve already suggested earlier in the thread cancel the booking . @humblehaven

There is no other option or they will continue to complain

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These people are nightmares just like most of us thought they were going to be. You need to get them out of there, especially before they have a chance to overstay. This may be building up to that.

I’d call Airbnb and have them canceled for tampering with the smoke detectors, that is a health and safety issue. And it’s likely illegal, it is in most places. It threatens your property and both your and Airbnb’s liability (make sure to point that out to Airbnb).

This is your best chance to get them out and you have nothing to lose, except getting your unit back. I would not let them stay any longer, nothing good is going to come from it. Don’t give them an opportunity to overstay. Have you verified that they actually bought a house? It is public record, you may want to check on it.

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As an experienced LTR landlord, you will have the best sense of what is going on here, but I agree with other commenters that there is something off about these guests. These people are extreme boundary pushers and I would get them out before they have tenant’s rights.

“Due to the issue with the smoke detectors, I am having a contractor here and we will be rewiring in the ceiling, so the apartment will be uninhabitable as of [date]. I’ve contracted Airbnb to rehouse you due to the repair, and will be reimbursing you $xxx for your interrupted stay. Apologies for the inconvenience.”

Give 24 hours notice, and if they don’t get gone promptly, go over with with a ladder and friend, put down dropcloths, and pull down the detectors, or even bang a hole in the ceiling, if your electrician can’t get there quickly. Offer to help carry out their luggage.

I noticed by your postings that you tend to discuss and explain a lot. Do not be drawn into conversations with this person, as they seem to keep engaging you in this or that matter. This is a red flag for scammer behavior. They may be testing how far they can push you.

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Am I the only one who thinks these guests have gone through a lot?

A lock system they couldn’t operate. A dying refrigerator with a bent door. Some amount of groceries possibly spoiled. More than a day of smoke detector beeping (granted, they could have called for help, but the host should have been proactively changing the batteries yearly). A thermostat they didn’t know how to use and apparently had no instructions for.

And a whole lot of interruptions. Since they’re building a house, or at least say they are, it could be a very, very stressful time for them. I can understand that they want privacy.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think these guests deserve some sympathy. I don’t really see them as complainers.

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I had some sympathy initially, maybe he’s stressed out about the move, maybe his wife is depressed, but the dude lost me when he disabled all the smoke alarms without consulting the owner, creating a fire and injury hazard that may be in violation of local regulations.

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