This is what I’ve elected to do. Awaiting feedback from AirBNB on the matter. They are reaching out to the tenant.
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I agree with you that they are likely not scammers and was going to leave alone and let it go to the end until the incidence with the smoke detectors. Pool guy reported someone moved valves on equipment so that no water was running to motor and motor was so hot it was danger of blowing. Now I’m just wanting to end both of our discomfort with each other.
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Why not? It’s called refund scamming. And asking you to pay for both their refrigerated and their non-refrigerated items is not only absurd but it is a type of scam. And you can count on them asking for a refund after they check out too.
This has nothing to do with hospitality. You were hospitable. But being bullied and scammed is not part of hospitality, there’s no obligation to put up with it. Every hotel would kick them out for taking down the smoke detectors. They may even call the police. It is against the law in AZ too, I looked it up.
It’s possible but we change all 23 of ours at the same time every 9 months. They are the hardwired ones too and are so loud we just don’t take any chances. But we changed them all in May and one of them alerted for a battery just last week. It happens every 2nd or 3rd time. We buy the best batteries but still one will fail sometimes.
He had no right to remove all of your smoke detectors and he had every obligation to allow entry so that you could perform maintenance on them. Being an Airbnb does not take away those very basic civil rules and laws.
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I think they are acting as if they have gone through a lot. Exaggerating the slight inconveniences that others might take no notice of, taking zero responsibility for anything (refusing to use the key when they had trouble with the lock, simply accepting that the fridge door couldn’t be slammed) and showing zero appreciation for this host responding with viable solutions to all of their difficulties.
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My daughter and son-in law took a course in accepting responsibility for what happens in one’s life. Part of it identified the stages of portraying yourself as a victim.
Resistance
Resentment
Revenge
Sounds like these guests and others like them.
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and as you shared in another post, in the TOS guest’s must comply with local laws. Removing smoke detectors from the room is illegal in most places.
@humblehaven If/When they ask for a refund this will be important to highlight: guests broke the TOS rules.
interesting. especially the “revenge” part. Actual victims don’t always seek revenge, but faux victims do. Looking back to bad stuff that happened to me, I was glad it was over and I was ok, and seeking revenge would have kept that bad thing in my life.
I agree, these people are acting like everything is such a giant inconvenience. they seem to crave the drama? Who has the time, the energy, the desire for all the drama? stuff happens, resolve it, move on with your day and be happy. But some people are really excellent at creating drama, and spending more time causing trouble than resolving the issue.
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Yes, those things were the stages of wanting to see yourself as a victim, as opposed to say, actually being a victim of a crime. It’s the psychology of those who choose to believe that “situations” and other people are always the source of their unhappiness.
A child may truly be a victim of dysfuctional, abusive parents, for instance, but continuing to use that as an excuse throughout your adult life for all the bad choices you make and how you choose to respond and behave in various situations is choosing to continue to see yourself as a victim, when in fact you no longer are.
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AIRBNB Said If I try to cancel or shorten, they will take back EVERY DOLLAR paid out to me!!! OMG!! They said I Cannot Cancel unless I want to LOSE all the money I received.
Only the guest can Agree to leave. What? I asked where is the written policy for this on their website? It isn’t there… it is only on their side. I asked how long can a guest be unresponsive to AirBNB and to me before we trigger an escalation and just cancel? Apparently, there is NO RECOURSE!!
“Only agents can see if there are any posted policies on this matter. It is an internal process. We are trying to work with our team and another department and see if we can alter … pull strings. They have no written rules on how long a guest can be non-responsive.”
Okay…it was a tad uncomfortable for a spell… we worked out the following:
I will offer tenants two options:
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Jointly we agree to the 28th as an altered reservation termination vs. 31st.
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Or, they agree to sign a short-term tenant contract that immediately terminates on 31st - allows me to immediately evict.
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Or, I can unilaterally change the reservation to the 28th. They could remain up to 36 hours, per AirBNB policy, before their removal is escalated.
I don’t want to cause more drama. I hate that this is escalating due to their personality and preferences combine with triggers in the home that inconvenienced them.
Based on feedback here I did feel I needed to find a way to reconsider allowing them in the home past 28 days. I want to be reasonable. Second guessing this direction.
I’m looking for a one-page simple form, but do have many forms available to offer. Hate the way things are going right now. I appreciate your feedback. I am learning much from you all.
you really do need to become more familiar with how Airbnb works. They cannot refund the money for the days they have already stayed they can only refund the guests for the days you are cancelling the booking for going forward. @humblehaven
I have no clue what your option 2 relates to - what short term tenant contract. You have guests not tenants.
Personally I would have gone down the ‘I feel unsafe with the guest as they turned off my smoke alarm’ angle and asked for a mutual penalty free cancellation.
hmm, i’m pretty sure we’ve heard stories here where exactly this happened.
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This is because there are ignorant CS - you need to be able to quote their relevant T&C to fight your corner . @gillian
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The only option you need is the one where Airbnb cancels their reservation for dismantling your fire safety system. Did you talk to them about them removing all the smoke detectors?
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I posted a link on this discussion (above) about AZ tenant law.
It looks from here that the host has tenants with a lease–it’s even in writing thanks to the AirBnB platform–and not guests with a license to occupy.
If I’m right, I think this is why AirBnB has taken this approach.
I don’t understand why the host wants to kick them out 3 days early except to be vindictive. There’s no other reason I can find. I don’t think ABB understands it, either.
My thoughts, take it or leave it.
It takes two to tango, and you are being a great dance partner with these tenants. (And yes I think they are legal tenants with a lease, courtesy of the ABB platform, not guests with a license to occupy.) It’s past time to step off the dance floor.
I think ABB thinks they are tenants and that’s why they say only the tenants can decide to vacate. You can try to persuade them to vacate of course. But if you change the locks or try to use ABB policy to evict, I think there might be legal ramifications for you.
Tenants often know a lot about landlord-tenant law. There are plenty of organizations to help tenants, and very few to help you.
I would have handled things differently here than you did. And my outcomes would have been better than you’re getting right now, because I have specific and general relevant experience that you obviously don’t have.
One of my former tenants (came with the property purchase) is currently serving a 9 year prison sentence for multiple assaults against women. He was so strong he ripped the handles off my cottage’s windows with his bare hands during a fight with his girlfriend. My husband was terrified of this guy. But I got them out of my property, safely and legally, no drama. So please believe me when I say I know your feelings can run hot.
What I gently suggest now is that you make protecting your business interests your new priority. That means staying on good terms with AirBnB so they don’t cancel your listing forever, which they can certainly do if they wish.
The long term objective here is a successful STR business. You do seem concerned about income, based on your response to ABB’s suggestion that you could lose all income from this rental.
Therefore, prioritize whatever protects you most with AirBnB. Cooperate with them, don’t argue, and follow their advice. ABB has been handling problems like this for years. Trust their expertise and see what happens. Your strategy is just causing you pain, so try someone else’s.
You are going to get a bad review from these tenants. That can’t be helped. But do you want penalties from ABB as well? Your other options are VRBO, booking.com, and Sabbatical.com if you can qualify for them.
I think you should limit all future rentals to 1 week at most, and 3 nights would be better. Three nights is easier to handle. This will also get you a bunch of good reviews.
If you are not allowed to rent for less than 30 days because of a Homeowners Assoc. or local law, then I suggest you hire a property manager for a year or two. Stay in close touch with them to learn from them, and then later you can do things yourself more successfully.
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Thank you for the suggestions.
AirBNB stated I would lose all income I earn if I cancel them on 28th vs. 31. I wanted to cancel early 3 days to avoid converting to tenancy and because they broke rules. I have no desire whatsoever to be vengeful or cause more drama.
I truly was excited for their stay and put much love into my preparations and am disappointed by how things of transpired during their stay. I do think it is a lovely house and they are magnifying some small matters that I believe any house can have, especially with a dog and endless package delivered e.g. two knats fly into home being worth of complaint or fact that 5 days after staying and walking around with pet inside that you are surprised ANY dust is in the vacuum on first use.
Furthermore, my House Rules state that stays over 28 days require a contract. I mentioned to guest and it must be written. To be in accord with rules, we must execute a short term agreement with appropriate clauses. If they do not, I have the right without penalty to cancel (per last confirmation with AirBNB).
Income is very important to me and am using much to cover expenses of the property and new appliance, new pool heater just purchased, etc. I don’t think that is surprising. I’m sure many would handle this all better and I’m on here to seek sound counsel from many other hosts. I do try to be fair and responsive vs reactive. I do feel there are reasonable ways both sides can come together or a resolution and this will pass and I will likely continue without a property manager.
I’m drafting a calm note pointing out they agreed to the house rules which state the same. If they prefer to end their stay by the 28th and not sign the agreement it is their choice. I"m not pushing unless they refuse signing.
It’s my fault for not pushing Day 1. I left signature docs on the counter. I haven’t really needed prior and was thinking it was maybe overly pushing with guests. I see it is good practice and am growing and learning daily.
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I wouldn’t assume that at all. @SleepingCoyote
Airbnb CS don’t even understand how their own policies work and you expect them to be familiar with tenant legislation in hundreds of countries 
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If you have those terms of long term stays then guests sign up to them before they stay not when they are getting to the end of their stay @humblehaven
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If they did not abide by the rules of the contract, it is a loophole to either fix agreeably as reasonable guests/hosts can be or terminate earlier to avoid tenancy with zero penalty to me.
I am finding this out. Interesting how they admitted not to have a public written policy on the matter that hosts and guests can read. This is how they became more cooperative as well. I wanted to be fully informed of the written policy and asked that the send it to me. … well, it is a moving target I suppose.
I am confused… you did not research the local statutes, discuss this with your lawyer, or even just ‘ask around’ locally for the information required for this? Additionally, you did not get a signed copy of whatever you presented to your guests before they entered your property? Due diligence is YOUR responsibility - Airbnb is a booking portal, not your advisor or a SWAT team to enforce what you ‘believe’ is happening.
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