Here is an article I found just via quick google search… I don’t vouch for the validity etc
I would expect nothing less from you! That’s an interesting article you cite (way above my capacity, though) but it’s not definitive. You cannot define a community simply through genetics, I believe anyway. I think that’s why I find their history so fascinating. Like a shadow people, if that makes sense.
Of course, and it’s important to do so. As said, most people don’t bother to distinguish - they are all just dirty foreigners with no morals or respect and Not Like Us. That attitude seems to be gaining momentum again, sadly.
I had guests from Romania with no problems.
Whether @BandB was aware of it or not, I am sure he was mistaken and meant the Romani but referred to them as Romanian. The Romani (aka Roma) and Romanians are of different ethnicities, as you know.
I don’t think the article was trying to do that, and I certainly wasn’t either. But theories have to be based on something, and currently genetics is the best we have.
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Sorry, that was a typo.
I meant ofcourse Romani.
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If I remember correctly, in the Romani language, ‘rom’ or ‘lom’ means man or person, so ‘Roma’ or ‘Romani’ is the self-describing term (endonym) now in use for them.
Of course it has nothing to do with Romania or Rome.
But I wouldn’t blame somebody for not knowing the distinction, the terms are confusingly similar. And I’d refrain from making sanctimonious comments about disrespecting foreigners and such – a great many identifiably Romany/Gypsy people in Western Europe come from Romania and neighbouring countries, so this confusion can arise.
It’s indeed been demonstrated from linguistic and genetic evidence – I think convincingly – that these people originate from around the Punjab region, having emigrating about a millennium ago, presumably to escape the onslaught of the Islamic invaders into the Indian subcontinent and their coercion to have to convert. Many European peoples, when they first came into contact with these people, thought they came from Egypt, hence the term Gypsies (egipsies).
And I think in other languages too - gitanos (egiptanos) etc.
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Did you read either of the articles? There are people flocking to certain parts of Europe for the sole purpose to panhandle (illegal in Sweden btw) and engage in other petty/small crimes. They happen to be Romani, which is why they as an entire group are getting a poor reputation. I fully agree with you that not all Romani are traveling, thieving, vagabonds, but it seems those are the members that have gotten the most attention, even with reality TV shows in US and UK
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“…And I’d refrain from making sanctimonious comments about disrespecting foreigners and such –”
I hope you are not directing this to me because I am not the author of any such comments.
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I assume Astaire meant me. I don’t think it’s “sanctimonious” to point out the increasing xenophobia on the rise or that it’s important to take care of the facts when making sweeping generalisations about peoples.
No, not you. It just happened to look like I replied to you because of the bit I quoted from your message.
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I confess I haven’t read those specific articles but I’m aware of the problem. I have no Final Solution to it but don’t believe that simply castigating a marginalised group is the answer.
Are you aware that the words “Final Solution” will practically stop the hearts of any people of Jewish origin reading your post?
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It was indeed, of course, kind of following on from faheem’s comment about the fate of the Romani under the Nazis.
It was a bit too much, I realise. Sorry if I stifled debate. It is a complex problem and not helped by such comments.
(Jewish hearts are not so fragile, btw).
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I’m not commenting or editorializing at all, (as I know nothing about Romani) but when I saw the word gypsies, I too remembered they were one of the groups targeted in the Holocaust.
I’m currently reading the Diary of Anne Frank, very interesting.
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Both the terms Romanians and Romani’s/gypsies were mentioned.
I have only mentioned Romani/Gypsies
At @Magwitch please tell me what the proper term is to call these people that have come to many European countries with the SOLE purpose to panhandle, pickpockets, and commit other petty crimes. I am more the willing to call them whatever the PC term is. I realize Gypsies along with a long list of other minorities were persecuted in WW2, and I agree the history of the Romani people is tragic. However, I’m not sure how that relates to the current day issues, it is well documented (read above articles) that certain sect within nationalities decide to descend on particular countries because pan handling and pick pocketing is easier in those locations.
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@azreala - Petty criminals would seem appropriate to describe a group who carry out these activities.
Scandanavia has a long history of Roma communities dating back 500 years with another wave of Roma’s established from the 19th century. This means many will be established within the community.
Making comments like '99,99 % of Romanian (sic) (@BandB meant Roma it has now been established) **women ** staying in Scandinavia are beggars, prostitutes or related with some kind of criminal activity’ is racist and patently untrue.
I was surprised and saddened to see a number of established hosts, who have previously spoken out against racism liking this sort of comment.