It could be risky to say "no children" in your Airbnb listing

I’m pretty clear on this. I used the sarcastic example as a means to underscore that exact point. Some people are talking about discrimination in the general sense, when doing so really has no place in this discussion.

I also clearly see your point in terms of Airbnb making it so hosts can’t accurately describe their space in order to help people like you find it. Sheesh.

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Haha! I had a great (or great-great) uncle whose wife was very houseproud and insisted that her husband changed out of his dirty work clothes in the draughty garden shed before he was allowed into the house. This was in the cold of the UK. He died of pneumonia.

Had that been in the US in these times, someone would have sued someone else :slight_smile:

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Thanks to all for a lively thread! It just occurred to me that using positive language in the description of our listing could possibly achieve the same goal as having those boxes checked. Example: “Our condo is best suited for 1 or 2 guests, i.e., a solo traveler or a couple.” This would of course be a bit confusing now that I’ve changed those blasted boxes to read that our place is infant/child friendly (it still is NOT), but perhaps it’s a way to say “Don’t book with us if you’re bringing children” without actually saying it. Thoughts? Does anyone think a statement like that could be construed as discriminatory?

Anikka, there’s some good info you can find about this question here:

https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA

If you scroll down the page a bit, you’ll see this:

A posting is also discriminatory if it uses language that might be discouraging towards a certain protected category. For instance, saying that a particular apartment is “perfect for a single or couple” could be discouraging towards families with children, who do not fit within the stated groups. Please note that unintentionally discriminatory postings are still illegal.

They then give examples of the type of statements that would be considered illegal:

postings stating a clear preference for families without children (eg. “no children,” “no kids and no pets,” “single occupancy only,” etc)
postings that could discourage families with children (eg. “ideal for working professionals,” “perfect for single or couple,” “nice, quiet, mature, neighborhood,” etc)

Based on these things, I believe that your hypothetical positive statement would still be “illegal.” I do think this is really unfortunate!!

As regards occupancy limits (single occupancy) this seems to be defined only for whole apartments, not a bedroom for rent. See here:
http://fairhousing.com/index.cfm?method=page.display&pagename=HUD_resources_keatingmmo

They discuss “reasonable occupancy limits” where a landlord could for instance rent an apartment and limit the number of people who could stay in the whole apartment, But many hosts, myself included, rent a bedroom in our home, not a whole apartment, and we may want only ONE person in that bedroom (single occupancy). I can’t see that this could possibly be illegal to state. And yet I"ve been surprised before by some laws so I can’t say for sure. There doesn’t seem to be any info on whether one could get in trouble saying “single occupancy only” for a bedroom for rent-- it does seem it would be a problem if renting a whole apartment.

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Seems one way to limit your room to single occupancy is by the bed you place there.

I’ve asked for comments about my using a so-called “full size” bed. Kind of a throw back to an earlier era but it belonged to my parents. Some comments leaned to it being potentially too small for sleeping two American guests. That the pair will go elsewhere. Others not so concerned. Anyway, I plan to go with it when I get started as a host.

Point is, the day rate for one guest is the same as for two, with lots less cleanup, etc.

We accept children. We don’t get that many and in 5 years have only had 4 instances of “problems” with kids.
Drawing on furniture, tables etc with Biro. Painting with a gloss paint on kitchen items, kettle and coffee press and in one case trying to remove the paint with a knife or other sharp object and in the process removing the original coating.
Bed wetting! Theft of a cot. In each case nothing was said by the perpetrators, they just moved out.
However, these things happen and we still accept children.

That’s wild that I can’t state a basic fact about the small room I’m offering. It truly is for one person. A couple would have to be very easy-going, and physically small! to stay in that room. Especially since my minimum is a month, so this is no 2 or 3 nights of roughing it. Nor do I want to share my bathroom with two other people, one is bad enough.

Oh, I wonder if local laws about number of tenants per square foot would factor into this. One local law I found just now was 50 square feet of bedroom per occupant of the bedroom. Something to look into when setting the maximum occupancy.

I’m inclined to think that it would be legal to set the maximum occupancy for a single bedroom, as one person. These occupancy limits as I mentioned are stated for entire apartments not rooms.

There are a number of reasons why it would be more reasonable to set occupancy limits in rooms in the hosts’ own primary residence, where the host or landlord lives. Not only the size of the room and the bed size, but also having to do with other things such as – utilities usage. People who rent entire apartments generally are paying for their own utilities. WHen you’re renting a room in a home often the rent includes utilities. More people showering and using heat and water equals higher utilities cost. Another factor would be – limits placed on the home or apartment itself by the city. IF the city for instance has laws that bedrooms in a Single family dwelling can’t be occupied by more than 2 people, then FHA can’t demand that the room be rented to more people than the city deems legal. Finally, there are issues having to do with just how many people the owner wants in their home, pertaining to noise and commotion. Say for instance a homeowner has 3 bedrooms for rent and wants 3 roommates. It would be very strange and inappropriate for the government to come in and say, no, you can’t have just 3 roommates, you have to have 6 or more – if people want 2 to a room or even 3 or 4 to a room (two adults plus two kids each) you have to allow it. I just can’t see anyone finding that reasonable.

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One reason I was totally hesitant to rent my studio flat long term is because I couldn’t advertise it for a single. If a family of six wanted to apply, I’d have to waste my time showing it and then of course turn them down, or even a family of three, way more than the apartment can accommodate. If I stated I wanted a single professional, that would be construed as discrimination based on familial size.

Craigslist has a VERY detailed, easy-to-understand page about housing law. https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA
They cover everything you legally can & can’t do–shame airbnb never read it, huh? :joy::sweat:

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Isn’t it possible to just not respond to those who contact you and express interest in the place, if you don’t want to rent to them? I dont’ rent out a full apartment so not sure if it would be different, but when I have advertised a room for a long term renter, I don’t respond to all the responses I get…much less invite everyone over to have a look. I would respond to less than half those expressing interest in the place.

If you don’t respond to inquiries it will show on your listed response rate and response time. This will cause potential guests to shy away from your listing.To qualify to be a Superhost you must have at least a 90% response rate. I believe that Airbnb will cancel your listing if your response rate goes below a certain percentage. Also, if you don’t respond to a specific group (families, a specific ethnicity, one of the genders, etc.) but you respond to everyone else it is proof of discrimination.

Ellen I’m not talking about Airbnb inquiries. I was referring to when I used to do standard long term rentals and get responses from Craigslist ads, since that is what @konacoconutz was referring to in the section I quoted. As anyone knows who’s advertised on Craigslist, you get quite a lot of people responding who just haven’t read the ad at all. Or who say nothing about themselves.

@Forestsprite @Anikka US law allows anyone who lives in a rental or lives in one apt of an up to 4 unit apt building to discriminate in any way they see fit. This is part of the Fair Housing Law and makes sense.

Someone needs to point this out to ABNB

So you can discriminate…you just can’t advertise it

What are the laws for roommates and shared housing?

[top]
Federal Fair Housing laws for roommates and shared housing have two components: advertising and decision-making.

Advertising: Federal Fair Housing laws prohibit discriminatory advertising in all housing, regardless of how large or small the property. However, as discussed below, advertising which expresses a preference based upon sex is allowed in shared living situations where tenants will share a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area.
Decision-making: Although the prohibition on discriminatory advertising applies to roommate and shared housing situations, federal Fair Housing laws do not cover the basis of decisions made by landowners who own less than four units, and live in one of the units. This means that in a situation in which a landlord owns less than four rental units, and lives in one of the units, it is legal for the owner to discriminate in the selection process based on the aforementioned categories, but it is illegal for that owner to advertise or otherwise make a statement expressing that discriminatory preference.

I must be missing something, a B&B or any short term holiday let is not subject to housing rules, in any country. You can set what ever rules you like. I state no children and that my cottage is not suitable for people with mobility issues, because it isn’t. I don’t see how this is enforceable to Air hosts. I mean people are not listing their rooms etc for long term, tenants surely? You have to be crazy to use Air for that.

Thank you for spreading this information. This is so disturbing! I am beyond words!

Then what about stipulating no children…you can say you want a specific gender but what about age in a shared living situation?

Airbnb today sent emails to all hosts, with some “new features” announced. Among those, is this “improvement” – infants will no longer be counted as guests.

http://blog.airbnb.com/more-host-controls/?utm_source=November_Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=November_Newsletter_2016

Part of what makes welcoming guests exciting and rewarding is the chance for unexpected connections and shared experiences. But there are certain parts of a booking that shouldn’t be a surprise. And hosts have told us that sometimes they don’t have key information about who’s going to arrive for a reservation, or what time they’ll be getting to the listing.

As we work to better match hosts to guests, we want to make sure you have the right controls and information to manage your listing. We’re gradually launching new controls in your House Rules for children, infants, pets, and preferred arrival times.

You can choose how to use the new settings. Here’s how they may impact your reservations:

Infants (under 2 years of age) will not count toward your guest maximum. You can specify whether your home is safe or suitable for infants, and note the maximum number of infants you can accommodate, in your House Rules.

Travelers won’t be charged additional guest fees for infants or pets. If you want to charge an additional fee, put those details in your House Rules and collect the fee using the Resolutions Center.

Children (ages 2-12 years) will continue to be counted and charged in the same way adults are. You’ll be able to set the maximum number of children you can accommodate, and should also mention this restriction in your House Rules.

You’ll be able to put in a window of time when you prefer for guests to arrive. We’re updating how your check-in time appears on your listing page and making it more prominent when travelers book your space.

If you have Instant Book turned on and a traveler is making a reservation that starts within 2 days, they’ll have to confirm that they’ll arrive during your preferred check-in window. If they can’t arrive during that range, they’ll have to request a reservation.

To help you prepare for your guests’ arrival, we’ll be showing you how many guests are coming, how many of them are kids and infants, if they plan on bringing pets, and their check-in time if guests know it. This information will appear in your reservation requests and booking confirmations.

Guests will see these new settings and all your other House Rules before they complete their booking and are expected to agree to them. If you turn on Instant Book and you’re ever uncomfortable with a reservation, you can cancel penalty-free. We want you to feel confident that the guests you welcome are a great match for your space and your hosting style, especially when you offer the convenience of allowing them to book instantly

How is it possible that a corporation which just did so much work researching nondiscrimination laws, in order to develop their own policy, doesn’t realize that these “new features” they are announcing, violate US nondiscrimimation laws?

Specifically:

Infants (under 2 years of age) will not count toward your guest maximum. You can specify whether your home is safe or suitable for infants, and note the maximum number of infants you can accommodate, in your House Rules…

Children (ages 2-12 years) will continue to be counted and charged in the same way adults are. You’ll be able to set the maximum number of children you can accommodate, and should also mention this restriction in your House Rules.

Oh no you can’t. It’s a violation of US law to “note the max # of infants you can accomodate”, if the max # you wish to accomodate is ZERO, and it’s likewise illegal to state that you can accomodate ZERO children.

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BINGO!!

Because they are going to say that hosts are the ones who are writing their house rules. I wonder if they will remove the check boxes they had hosts check off.

I am on Expedia and only allow 4 guests on there. There is a note saying the place accommodates 3 children. It even sounds confusing as if 4 adults can come, and also bring 3 children.