I didn’t see where OP said countryside. I only saw " on property" . For me it’s not common knowledge as I have no chance to watch TV often .
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I cannot understand why you would need to ban vaping outside. Surely it’s the ideal solution to the smoking problem?
Again, it felt like opening a door to abuse.
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There’s an international crisis with climate change, including fires in the Summer. (Even though Trump is a climate change and science denyer, that is the case) It’s all over the radio, internet, conversations etc. not just TV. You’d have to be a hermit not to hear about the fires.
It doesn’t matter if I heard or not or they heard or not. Even if they heard it doesn’t mean they immediately understood about smoking restrictions that are so wide . Obviously these people didn’t expect to stop smoking immediately . And I am sure there will be other smokers who will do the exact same thing.
It’s an equal mistake of a host to not specify it as for guests not assuming they can’t smoke anywhere around
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Why are you putting the onus on the host and not the smoker? Should they not seek clarification rather than assume when the already are aware that smoking is not desired?
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That is the guests problem.
The owner does not want smoking inside, and common sense (and in a lot of places also the government) do not allow smoking outside.
If you really need to smoke, lock yourself in your car, or drive to the nearest parking lot.
If you really need your nicotine shot, book a place that allows smoking.
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I’m going to follow @Yana upstream… and further.
I understand “no smoking on the property”, we also don’t allow smoking inside our apartment or on the property to prevent problems with the neighbors. However, I don’t think you can tell people they can’t smoke on a public road. I don’t even think law enforcement can prevent people from smoking on public ground, because no such law exists. Pushing it that far, smells like discriminating against smokers.
As for fires…
Smoking for most smokers is an addiction just like many others, and this includes smoking at certain time intervals: Riding to town each time most likely isn’t an option. Your guests asked several times where they could smoke and therefor showed signs of responsibility and being good guests. You didn’t offer any feasible solution, so they were left with little options. If you are so scared of fires, why didn’t you just offer them a safe solution? A safe spot on your own property with a bucket of water? Or a bottle of water to take with them to the public road?
Sometimes it’s better to be pragmatic than dogmatic.
People will go mad over this, but I think in this case, you were not the best host. Hosts can invent all the rules they like, but in the end this creates an experience from hell for guests. A guest should be able to expect to at least be able to smoke on the public road. If this isn’t acceptable to you, try and put “no smokers allowed” in your rules and see how AirBnB reacts to that.
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I agree with you on this one. I wouldn’t have handled it the way they did, if for no other reason than fear of guest getting a full refund and me getting a bad review. I also think giving them a safe place to smoke was the best way to keep them from starting a fire instead of sending them down the road where they will just fling lighted butts out the car window because they aren’t allowed to smoke in their rental car either. I suggested this on the first thread Bunny posted on and she rejected it out of hand. This issue for her is one of respect for her property and wishes. She says she made it absolutely clear in her listing that no smoking was allowed anywhere on the property.
However, smokers are not a protected class under US law or Airbnb policy. Smokers don’t have a right to smoke so to speak. Accomodating their addiction is not up to society or hosts, it’s up to the addict. Airbnb allows hosts to “discriminate” against smokers.
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I understand that hosts can say “no smoking allowed on my property”, but can they say “no smokers allowed”? Could you please confirm this?
That seems a dangerous path to follow.
They can. And we’ve had other threads about it .
The rub comes in enforcing it. I try to stick to rules I can enforce. As you say, if someone is smoking in the middle of a public road or on the sidewalk in front of a home (where one exists, there’s not one at Bunny’s place) then they technically aren’t in violation of the rule. And if the guest decides to be a jerk about it, have fun.
Expecting respect from guests is dangerous?
I grew up in tobacco farm country. I’m not a smoker. I don’t care if people smoke. They surely must know the health risks. Nicotine is an addiction. I ask that smokers take it outside on the patio. OK qualifications done… on your property
- You can make “no alcohol” a requirement.
- In 420 states you can make “no 420 products” a requirement.
- You can make “no smoking” a requirement.
you can’t legislate a public road. If there is a ban that is legal issue, call the sheriff.
If the real concern is fires then give a smoker a safe place to smoke. Just saying “no smoking” isn’t addressing the core issue of fire prevention.
If the real concern is your guest not following your rules, the rules don’t apply to land you don’t own.
Pause, breathe, and decide if your wording on your Airbnb listing needs to be more clear of “NO SMOKING anywhere on property” or if when you receive an inquiry, your return message should be “due to high fire alert we cannot allow outdoor flame of any kind including cigarettes”. “Smoking is not allowed on premises”.
I think most people think of “no smoking” as “no smoking inside”
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if the county has issued a county wide burn ban, which they have, I think they can enforce that with burning material, no matter what the material is, anywhere they want and if a Sheriff had come by and seen them throwing their butt on the ground as they did they would have been ticketed.
Smokers are not a protected class hence all the prohibitions against smoking in buildings, on public transportation, in national parks etc. etc.
Rejected out of hand… hmmmm. I considered what you said but decided to stick to my policy. Why is their problem my fault? Why can’t they rent a place where they can smoke? Why can’t they use a nicotine patch? Nicotine gum? Why is their addiction my problem?
Does “no” not mean “no” anymore? I provide lovely accommodations for people and ask that they not smoke. How hard is that?
Would you expect a movie theater usher to come running with a bucket of water for a moviegoer who just had to smoke so they could be accommodated rather than follow their rules? No. they would be escorted out and probably not allowed to come back in.
As it was they spent the entire first day and night smoking to their heart’s content. I found cigarette butts ground into the lawn and in the garbage under the kitchen sink which left an awful stink (there is an outside garbage provided). They had their fun at my expense for a day and a half and I asked them to forfeit the second night because they showed they did not respect my wishes or my property. They got their night refunded and I couldn’t care less. I do not rent it for the money. I could just as easily let it stand vacant and save it for family and friends to use but I thought this might be fun.
They left behind some “Smart Water.” Too bad, seems like they really need it.
Thank you for confirming. I think this is totally strange!
But in that case @Bunny just go for it and refuse anyone who has touched a cigarette in the last 3 months.
Better wording would have been: A slippery path.
Some hosts would argue that according to this “respect and wishes” logic they could deny obese people, gay people, and anyone else they want to discriminate against.
In that case cars should stop running too because they burn gasoline. In fact my dad’s car once burned down because he parked on top of some very dry grass. So cars are also a fire hazard.
Leaving the butt out there was totally wrong and without a doubt could be fined for littering. I can’t imagine a burn ban including smoking a cigarette. I could be wrong.
You sir are putting words where they aren’t. Please directly quote where I said the above.
And our county just issued a warning about cars starting grass fires asking citizens to be aware of where they drive and park with regard to combustible fuels. They also reminded everyone about the fine for throwing burning materials on the ground.
There was a big fire a down the road from me that was started by sparks from a travel trailer. Forced evacuations, burned three homes to the ground, killed two horses and scorched 100s of acres.
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Those are my words and that is the solution that I am proposing to your problem. Apparently discriminating against smokers is allowed so you should just go for it.
I suggested this:
" Maybe suck it up and take an ashtray or can of dirt over and say something along the lines of “smoking isn’t allowed on the property anywhere but since you are here…” Give them a spot to smoke and a safe place to put their butts so they aren’t driving down the road in the rental car with the windows open and throwing them out the window (and starting a fire) so they don’t stink up the rental car. Grit your teeth, bite your tongue and then write your review afterwords."
Your reply was “Yanno… I’m just too pissed to talk to them right now.” And when you caught them a second time you said “that’s it, they are gone,” or words to that effect.
Look, I don’t think there’s anyone on this forum that dislikes smoking and smokers more than I do but when you become an Airbnb host there are sacrifices you have to make. Finding the line between hospitality and hostility, demanding respect and giving respect…that’s part of what we have to do.
You were suspicious of this guy from the time he first inquired simply because he was from South Africa. Then he pulled the ESA card and tried to play that and by the time they got there you were edgy. I think providing a smoking area would have avoided the problems and the hiding you discovered later. You don’t. It won’t be the first time we disagree and I doubt it will be the last.
This is a host forum to exchange ideas not just echo what the person posting wants to hear.
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Under the law of the United States there cannot be discrimination where no protected class exists.
The federal government has passed laws protecting everyone from pregnant women to older workers from discrimination. Employers also cannot discriminate based on personal characteristics such as weight, marital status or disability. However, there is no federal law declaring smokers as a protected class .
Yes, some would. But as I already said smokers are not protected under law or under Airbnb policy.