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When you ask a guest to be removed

Unfortunately, we were put in this situation last night where a group of 6 ( 20 something couples) were drunk, harassing the neighbors, smoking, playing loud music at 12am, throwing up on our porch, and physically beat our house with a stick ,ala baseball bat style (all on security video). In their drunken state they decided to concoct some scheme not to pay, and file a a resolution center dispute at 11.30pm on their last night, saying that my neighbors harassed them non stop for 5 days. The true version of this is they parked, against house rules, in our shared driveway and the neighbors asked them to move. Then asked them to respect the 10pm quiet hours that are a city wide ordinance and threatened to report them/us to the STR board for noise violation. How do I know? Bc I have security cameras that caught the entire escapade.

The guests drunkenly via email told me if I didn’t refund they would report me to the IRS for back taxes (no idea!!) and to the city (well, the neighbors beat you to that one, but thanks). I escalated to ABB around 12.30am when things were going downhill quickly. ABB offered to cancel, and then I could call the cops, yes at 12.30 with piss drunk guests. Sure my neighbors will LOVE that scene. I said no, I want them out first thing. ABB said no problem we will email, and so should you the same stating they need to leave ASAP. Did that, anxiously tried to sleep. 7.30 am they respond with we are leaving and reporting you to police (seriously, no idea why), city (yup, already got that) and more of the IRS stuff about back taxes(current on taxes so…really no clue) I tell them to leave in 30 mins or cops are getting called, and explain their terrible behaviour that we have on film. They proceed to knock down the security camera and camp out inside the house. I call ABB and the new case mgr says they can stay until 11!!! What!?! Check out time isn’t until 11 and there isn’t enough proof they broke the house rules! SO, what about the video footage I sent you at 12am?

Call the cops, they remove them. They tell the same BS to the cops, about IRS(??) and other nonsense about the city, cops say not our problem, but homeowner wants you out, you need to leave. That was at 10am. Still no word from ABB.

I sent video footage of all the ‘accused’ violation to ABB, plus they heard the guest threaten my while on the phone with ABB, and they still said the guests could stay to 11! I was shocked. Wanted to share my story, so no one depend on ABB to help mediate a nasty situation like this.

Luckily, no damage except security camera, bc the cops were there. I fully believe had I not called the cops my house would be trashed.

Guest had 2 verifications and just joined in May 2016. I take full responsibility for my poor vetting of these guests.

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Oh my goodness! This was your home in Barcelona?

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No, Northern California…the Spanish police would never have come for a noise disturbance :joy::joy:

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A million hugs, Az. You don’t deserve these dreadful guests. I am so glad the cops helped you get them out.

ABB actually said they had until 11??? In what universe! ? The incompetence is staggering!

The worst of Airbnb, folks, right here.

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I am mostly disappointed in ABBs handling of this situation with VIDEO evidence of bad guests. I’m glad its over. I’m glad they are out. I am exponentially glad I called the cops against ABBs recommendation, bc I really believe that saved a ton of headache with broken/destroyed stuff.

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Actually, when you really think about it, ABB is pretty much powerless to help you if there is an extreme emergency. They are sitting at a phone bank a zillion miles away. Reminds me of the recording I get when I call the appointment center for a doc visit: “If this is a medical emergency, hang up and call…”

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Completely agree. I was just gobsmacked when they told me the guests were allowed to be there until the reservation ended at 11am! Luckily the local cops treated it as a hotel kicking out rowdy patrons and removed them asap.

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I have often wondered about this exact situation so thank you for posting – but I send my sympathies. What the hell, Airbnb! Are you planning to make a big deal about this with Air? Write the “founders”, put it on their Facebook and Twitter pages? This is unbelievable! I am so angry for you :angry:

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Since I got about 3 hours of sleep last night, and then had to drive back and forth to the house, bc they came back after the were kicked out, I’m not in the right state of mind to write THAT email.

I plan on it in them morning. I think the biggest atrocity is that these idiots just didn’t want to pay, so they came up with some ridiculous scheme, that wasted everyone’s time.

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I am SO SORRY! :rage:

Well, good you got the police involved.
This will give you some support in your fight against AirBnB.

Police no, but the Guardia Civil will come, because they take any chance to swing around their clubs. :smiling_imp:

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This is terrible AZ. Thanks for sharing this. You know, I happened to ask Air last week what would happen if a guest brought too many people - would I still be paid out??

The reason I asked is because I have heard conflicting experiences on here where some have said that Air has paid them out for someone bringing too many people, etc. So I wanted to hear directly - from at least one rep. - although I am sure another rep. will tell me something different.

Anyway, so I asked the rep. what happens if my guests arrive with one or two extra people over maximum occupancy. They said to call them and they will tell the guest they can’t have that many people. I told them that I may not even want the guests in the rental at all at that point. Because if the other guest/guests have to now rent an additional house/hotel they are going to be pissed anyway. Then of course they will begin looking for anything they can nit pick about, and then likely leave a negative review.

I said “Well what about the guest breaking rules of bringing more guests” - the rep. said the only way they would cancel and pay me out, is if the guest did it again. So only if the extra guests return will Air cancel and still pay out. But then I could easily see the guests denying it anyway. It only confirmed for me that Air has a bunch of “fake” protections for a host. I think it is a shame that they allow hosts to rent out long term on their site, and don’t even warn them about guests claiming tenancy rights. Then when host has an issue, Air disappears unless you pester them through social media.

Sorry you had to go through this.

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Wow. First, my sympathy that you have to go through this. Second, thank goodness for cameras and that you were in town, not in Barce. In terms of them being able to stay until 11 this must be because you didn’t cancel the reservation. Hindsight is 20/20 but it seems you should have cancelled as soon as the bad behavior was discovered and you should have physically gone to the property to both observe and have on camera. And yes, you should have called the police. There’s no reason to think that after they are discovered they would make nice. The empty threats of blackmail put the threads and posts about legal airbnbs in a different light as well. Is this the newest scam? Rent an airbnb you think is illegal, stay for a week and then try to get a free stay by threatening to report the owner?

If Air doesn’t do right by you that video footage needs to be posted on social media and the renter need to be publically shamed.

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Oh, @azreala, how completely awful. So sorry for all of this headache. I’m hoping this guest is also banned from the ‘community’!

The answer is NO. I learned this after this incident and the last one with the smokers. If you the host cancel for any reason, yes including breaking of house rules, the guest is REFUNDED for any nights they don’t stay. If you were to add the additional fee, for the extra guests, through the resolution center you MAY be able to recoup it.

@KKC I did cancel the reservation, but since it was approaching 1am and ABB told me I had to call the cops etc, I decided to re-instate the reservation, bc no one at ABB could clarify that I would be covered under the Host Guarantee if I cancelled THEN they trashed my house. It was a rock and a hard place for sure.

To veer OT for a second, I do beleive there is a new ‘scam’ of lets books a $$$ ABB, then figure out how not to pay for it. As we have seen many posts here about guests doing a version of this. I think the word ‘illegal’ is not 100% accurate for a lot of municipalities around the world, as ‘illegal’ implies breaking the LAW. A lot of places you are simple violating a city code/ordinance/planning department zone that has been on the books for decades, and doesn’t make sense in the new world of home sharing. The punishment also being a written warning, or no punishment at all to the homeowner and certainly no punishment to the guest. On the flip side you have place like Barca where it is actually ILLEGAL and host, guest, and ABB can all get fined, etc.

I know this is pie in the sky request of guests, but shouldn’t the onus be on the guest booking to determine what type of accommodations they are staying in, and the legality of the accommodations. And for them to decide what THEY want to do. Granted some hosts lie, but if you are traveling to XYZ city and you start looking at listings and some say ‘Legal’ and other don’t say anything. I would think, hmm, maybe I should look into ‘how illegal’ this is, like am I going to jail, or is the host just going to get in trouble. If the later, I would be fine, the host decided to take a risk, and that’s on them.

This is beginning to be a common theme, and we ALL need to have back up plans in place, bc ABB never seems to be helpful when ‘Shit hits the Fan’

@dcmooney per my last conversation with ABB they were not being banned bc smoking and lout music is considered a ‘first offense’.

As discussed on this forum, there are many possible issues. Violating a city ordinance or code would still be under the definition of “illegal.” Violating an outdated law is still violating the law. Breaking a lease or HOA agreement should probably be called something besides illegal. Not paying taxes on income is illegal but lots of people here think it’s ok because their CPA told them there is no way they’ll be caught.

I could see many hosts falling for a blackmailing scam. Someone stays a week and on the last day sets a box of live cockroaches loose in your rental. They threaten you with a viral social media post, or reporting you to IRS, local housing authority, HOA, neighbors, cops, whatever. How many hosts would just refund them the money to be rid of the problem.

I wonder if additional cameras would help deter these slimeballs. Clearly they didn’t know about the camera until you told them so it couldn’t act as a deterrent. Cameras on all outdoor spaces: driveway, entrance, porch, patio. Pictures and disclosure in the listing. Maybe no more remote hosting at all or if you disclose it now, stop. If I were going to plan some debauchery with my friends and scam the host I would pick a listing with no cameras and an absentee landlord for starters.

As for guests determining the legality of their accomodation, no I don’t think I agree with you. I’m going on a road trip and that was the last thing on my mind. It varies so much by locality, especially in a large metro area.

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Exactly, and to be honest my husband thought of about it! Just to not deal with the headache of a noise complaint. I figured we would get a noise complaint from the neighbors anyway, so these twerps could F off.

Camera is very visible at front door and gets entire front yard, I feel like putting one in my back yard (hot tub, bbq, fire pits) is somewhat violating. However, these people hung out in the front yard, so it was all on camera.

I know the forum loves to call anyone that doesn’t do check an absentee or remote host, I go to the property before and after every check in/out (when we are in the country, I agree when we are in Europe we are absentee) and am very communicative with the guests. I just don’t like when WE travel to have someone meet me and do the intro talk, I would rather read the info, and do self check in. So, that’s how we do with our guests.

We are allowed to disagree :slight_smile: I think there is a happy medium somewhere, where the guest can’t play the ‘I want a refund’ game bc the host is not permitted (my new term for illegal :joy:) If the non permit issue did not affect the guests stay, why does it matter? Just like if the host didn’t correctly report to the IRS, how does that affect the guest?

The fact my idiot guests brought up the IRS things, makes me think they have pulled a version of this ‘scam’ before. We have always reported, and will continue to, so it didn’t even phase me and I focused more on their threat to call Code Enforcement. However, hindsight being 20/20 once they said IRS I should have had a major red flag moment.

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I am really going to have to pay closer attention to any new posts and Air refunding the hosts. Maybe the “good” experiences of Air paying out on the guest’s first “offense” of rule breaking - is a just a thing of the past. A reflection of the good old days.

I have heard another host mention the IRS threat before. The IRS isn’t going to take the time to seriously investigate anyone, unless the “reporter” has substantial inside information.

The IRS employees half the time don’t even understand the IRS code. It’s all about interpretation of the law anyway. That’s why if presented the exact same scenario, one CPA will say to file Schedule E, and another one will say “No way…this is Schedule C.”

No way the IRS is going to begin audits on people just because some pissed off neighbor, employee, customer, etc. gets mad at someone.

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We aren’t disagreeing on anything nor am I victim blaming. I’m just trying to brainstorm ways to prevent this from happening to you and other hosts. I know there are listings where they say they aren’t there. I’ve read so many listings where there are multiple reviews that say “didn’t get to meet xxx, but the place was great.” I’m trying to put myself in the mind of the scammer. So even if a host is usually there or even lives in the same house, but is going to be gone a lot I wouldn’t advertise it.

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