Very very clear Extortion, but Airbnb say's it's not extortion

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I am a host. I have had hundreds of guests. I recently had a guest try to extort me. They did this in the Airbnb discussion thread. The extortion is extraordinarily clear. Meaning, it’s impossible to not see the extortion as what it is. But Airbnb determined that there was no extortion. And the case is closed. When I essentially tried to reopen the case, they made it clear that was not an option and that the determination had been made.

It’s a company, not a legal system. They can do what they choose to. And in theory I shouldn’t necessarily care. It does not exactly directly affect me whether or not another person is held accountable for extortion.

I’ve seen Airbnb be a great partner, and I’ve seen them do very problematic things. But it’s never previously shaken my faith in continuing to do Airbnb.

But this has been very disturbing for me, and I’m now looking at alternatives for how to earn money from my property.

My question is, is there some way to get another set of Airbnb eyeballs on the same case. Is there a way to escalate this inside Airbnb. Because again, the extortion was impossible to not see.

I have no interest in going public with this. And I have no interest in pushing things in a way that might get my account shut down. I’m not going to sue. In a previous challenging situation (which I discussed in this forum), I called Airbnb over and over again. It was seeming like it might get different results, but I never did. In this case, with the extortion, I specifically asked for the safety team. And with the safety team, everything gets directed back to the investigation that was already done, and in this case apparently concluded.

I guess in the end my question is whether there’s a way to safely escalate within Airbnb. But I’m fairly positive that the answer is “no”.

So again, I’m now looking at alternative ways to monetize my property. This feels like a real loss to me, because I really love doing Airbnb. It’s been a chance to meet so many amazing, wonderful people.

I have a good friend who owns a house which he was using for Airbnb. He also got extorted, and Airbnb was fully unwilling to help, and because of it he left the platform. Even before a similar thing happened to me, he’s been trying to tell me that the extra money from airbnb doesn’t add up to enough to be worth the extra hassle. And how he’s been much happier just having renters.

I’m not trying to convince anybody to stop using Airbnb. Everybody should do what’s best for themselves.

But I’m very disillusioned. Airbnb has been a jerk in some ways in the past, but never with something so horrendous. It’s literally impossible to not see the extortion as extortion. And Airbnb insisted that no extortion was found and then closed the conversation. I’m being repetitive here, but It just keeps hitting me again and again how insane this is.

There’s sort of an assumption that Airbnb or any reasonable company will be reality based. Probably overly self-protective and selfish, but that’s how business usually works. In this case, it wouldn’t have cost them anything to agree that there was extortion.

I’m not sure what I’m expecting from this forum. I don’t think there’s any real answer for escalating this issue or anything like that. But I guess I’m still processing this, and sharing it with you folks is emotionally helpful for me.

The next thing I will be doing is running the numbers. Figuring out to a great level of detail. How much money I make with Airbnb vs how much money I can make with other ways of doing things. If I can make 80% of the money that I currently make with Airbnb, but not need to put in as much effort, that’s likely to work well for me. I need to make my mortgage payment. But my time also has value. And besides the normal airbnb tasks, there are 1 in 100 guests where the amount of emotional energy and time It takes from me is extreme. But that’s expected.

And maybe Airbnb will never do the kind of thing that they just did to me again. Maybe this is a one-off. But I am extraordinarily disillusioned.

I could discuss this using my real name in the official airbnb forums. And that would increase the chances of me making a fuss that got some attention. But I’m not interested in risking having my airbnb account shut down. Whoever the person was that made this determination is someone who works on the safety team. And the safety team specifically decides which accounts should get removed from the airbnb platform. So poking that bee’s nest with a stick doesn’t seem smart.

No obligation, but I’m curious for any thoughts you have. :pray:

Thank you!
-HostHost

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I’m so sorry this happened to you, and that is has wasted your time and taken an emotional toll.

All I can say is that Airbnb does so many things that are literally insane that I have to just acccept that this is how they roll, or I wouldn’t use them as a listing platform. And I feel somewhat bad about that, because by continuing to list with them, I am generating service fees for them and therefore supporting their brand of insanity, which harms so many good hosts.

Like you, I love hosting. I get wonderful guests. And as a homeshare host, I don’t have the alternative of listing on VRBO or Booking.com- Airbnb is pretty much the only game in town for me to get bookings. Nor do I want a roommate, so switching to LTR isn’t an option.

Unlike you, I don’t rely on hosting to pay my bills. It’s something I do because I like having guests from all over the world, many of whom I interact with quite a bit and that enriches my life in other than monetary ways. But I wouldn’t do it for free and the extra money it brings in is definitely helpful.

I have never had major egregious issues like you have, but certainly exchanges with CS that have made me want to scream, they are so obtuse. But I have also had Airbnb support me when I needed them to.

If I had an issue in which I felt they had treated me disrespectfully, insanely, and senselessly, rather than just incompetently, I’d probably quit them, too. My guest room would go back to sitting empty most of the year unless friends and family came to visit.

But basically, I just accept that they are a listing platform that connects me with guests, have no illusions about them having my back, and therefore avoid dealing with CS unless it’s unavoidable.
You say you are disillusioned, which literally means your illusions were broken. Best not to have any illusions when it comes to this company.

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Fully agree with @muddy 's sentiments.

I have brought up many issues with ABB support and gotten zero help, I have zero confidence they would ever be useful so I don’t rely on them for anything, even the most basic questions.

The only reason I keep using them is the amount of bookings they send me, it’s 90% of my bookings and I have a direct book site, I’m listed on VRBO, I did use Booking dot com for about a year but they were surprisingly worse than ABB and I have a Furnished Finder listing as well. None of those provide as many bookings as I need to make money.

I prefer to think of ABB as an advertising company instead of a lodging service, that makes me feel less bothered by their horrible support.

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Can you provide the text they used?

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Very well said muddy! Then you response helps me.

Just to say, I have had airbnb support do a great job at times. And while I was being extorted, the main person I was on the phone with was extremely helpful and made sense. But then the case bounced between many different people. Each time there was a new name. And in the end, there was a ruling, and no name. In other words, in the end, the message didn’t come from “Sue at airbnb safety team”. It just came from the airbnb safety team.

I fully agree about meeting amazing people via airbnb. I broke a few of my own rules by accepting this guest and clearly I paid the price.

One where another, making money for my property is required for making ends meet. But it’s also something I love. I specifically always want other people in the house, because that’s awesome. And there are some huge advantages of airbnb over just having a housemate.

Anyhow, thank you very very much muddy!

You are amazing and wonderful,
-HouseHouse

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Based on our investigation, we were not able to confirm that there was a violation of our Community Standards or Terms of Service. We have taken measures to ensure that all parties are aware of our Community Standards.

In other words, they say there was no extortion and that they made the guest read a webpage.

Just to say again, it’s nearly impossible to have a more clear example of extortion, which was documented very clearly in the airbnb thread.

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That makes a lot of sense.

It is a shame that airbnb essentially has a monopoly.

I’m still trying to figure out what I do next. Thanks justarock!

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I think Rolf meant the wording of the extortion.

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Oh, my bad. True. No, I’m not going to list that here.

The extortion went on for hours of writing in the airbnb thread. It started with a very clear statement of give xxx in cash or I will report terrible (untrue) things about your rental business. But I’m not going to cut-and-paste from the actual thread.

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Can you post that here? Or is it not ‘really’ as you say? Because if that is true, then I request that this thread be closed and/or deleted… accusations without evidence are not acceptable…

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I’m thinking that the wild-eyed accusation of airbnb ignoring “a very clear statement of give xxx in cash or I will report terrible (untrue) things about your rental business” is a fabrication, or at the least, an exaggeration. The refusal to show details here also leads me to believe that these kinds of “OMG airbnb is the worst look what they did to me” pityparty threads need to be exiled into an easily ignored sidebar. They can still get those “airbnb is the worst” commiserations, but we will not have to see the slow devolvement from undisputed righteous indignant down to “no, I will certainly not show what I am talking about” irrelevance and the certain “you guys are the worst, I am leaving now” decampment…

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That’s pretty harsh, Rolf. Just because someone doesn’t want to share something publicly doesn’t mean they are misrepresenting it. You are also making accusations without evidence.

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You remind me of an extortionist I met recently. You’re also acting like a bully and a troll. I have no interest in continuing to converse with you in any way whatsoever.

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Once again Rolf… you remind me of an extortionist I met recently. You’re also acting like a bully and a troll. I have no interest in continuing to converse with you in any way whatsoever.

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“Me thinks he doth protest too much”…

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I blocked him a while ago because he acted the same way on one of my posts - had to unhide his posts just now to read what he said. Trolls are so interesting.

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Were you answering the guest, or you mean they just kept sending ranting messages? If the former, that probably confused the issue. If a guest makes threats, I’d say it’s best to not respond to them at all, and right away report it and ask Airbnb to block them from contacting you.

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Very early in the extortion I called the Airbnb safety team.
I said that I was being extorted. I showed the threat in the airbnb thread.
The Airbnb safety team woman said these was nothing she could do.
She said they could still leave a review even though they were trying to extort me for money.

Even with hundred’s of reviews, I have never gotten a bad one, so I continued to discuss things with the extortionist.

Anyhow, I agree with you. But the method you describe assumes Airbnb will help. And they didn’t help.

The case also got passed between many different people. There was one person who seemed great, but whoever ended up in charge of things did not make a reasonable decision.

You are awesome muddy and you give great advice!
-HostHost

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Thanks for letting me know justarock.

Some people are not good people. Thankfully it’s rare.

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The last thing I messaged Airbnb about, the first rep said she’d get back to me right away, and then another rep messaged me the same thing. Then I got a message from the 3rd rep, who sent a long message which didn’t relate to my question, patted himself on the back (“I’m so glad I was able to solve your issue”) and closed the thread. All this time I haven’t sent anything but the first message with my question.

When I then said he hadn’t solved my issue at all, yet a 4th rep stepped in. He actually understood my question, although I think his answer was actually wrong.

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