Unregistered guest. Seen in person, but guest denying it through the message thread

We currently have a whole house booking for two guests. I’m aware that they have, for the past two nights, had a female friend staying with them. I tried asking them to clarify this in the message thread, however they denied it and gave an explanation that I know is untrue. They said that their friend just came over once to drop off luggage.

I have seen this personally, as I live on the property, and I’m even aware that their friend is there currently. After they were dishonest in the message thread, I went over there to speak to them personally about the issue. It was 10.30 PM and I could only speak to one of the guests. I asked to come in to check that there are only two guests staying at the house. The toilet door was locked, and one guest refused to come out for 30 minutes during this time for me to verify their story (which I know is untrue). One of the male guests was hiding in the toilet with their female friend. He obviously would never come out, because that would expose their lie.

We charge after two guests, and also have it written in our House Rules that no one outside the booking should be allowed access to our home (i.e. no visitors).

I went back a second time, as I was unsatisfied that their friend refused to come out of the toilet for half an hour, however now they are refusing to open the door. It is late, and I do feel conflicted about going over at this time of the evening, but as they are now aware I know what is going on I feel that I have limited options to ‘prove’ it to Airbnb.

Can anyone recommend what I should do, as at the moment it seems that I’ll be staying up all night until morning trying to catch them before their friend leaves. The last messages over Airbnb between the guest and I are the exchange where I ask him to clarify how many people there are there, and him lying about the situation. I’m hesitant to record in writing what just happened in the thread, but have emailed AIrbnb about it already in detail to have it on record in some form.

In your situation, I would call Airbnb and say you are uncomfortable having these guests stay because they have lied to you and broken your house rules.

You can say that have someone who hasn’t booked in your accommodation contrary to your rules and that when you went over to check with them about this one of the guests locked themselves in the toilet for half an hour (you suspect with the female who shouldn’t have been staying). They are now refusing to allow you access to the property.

Going forward I would suggest you have CCTV at your property as then you can see who is going in and out and when.

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I agree with Helsi’s response on this.

But I am curious, do your registered guests have any reviews at all? It sounds like they may do this sort of thing all the time.

They’re new users, who probably thought they could avoid paying the additional person fee.

I’m definitely looking into getting a doorbell with a motion sensor and camera in future.

I had a situation once where a group of two ended up as a group of 4 without notifying me. I rent out rooms in my house so it was obvious they had a larger group. I just submitted a change alteration citing to the additional guests. They weren’t excited about it, but they also did understand that it’s not appropriate to bring people over unannounced. Unlike your situation, they weren’t trying to hide it, nor do I think they had an bad intentions. They didn’t flame me in the review, so I guess maybe I got about as lucky as one can get.

Yes, I’ve been fortunate enough that, when this situation happens, guests usually end up being forthcoming.

As it is, Airbnb isn’t being the most helpful in this instance. I’ve been told that, essentially, without the guest confirming that there are in fact 3 people staying, there is not much I can do as AIrbnb has to remain impartial. Given they have denied it in writing already, I doubt they will suddenly start to be honest.

I have also been told not to take photos of my guests coming or leaving the property as ‘proof’ of their dishonesty, as per their policies on surveillance. They will not accept this documentation, so I feel quite frustrated and hopeless about this all. In total for this booking I’d lose almost $100.00 as a result of the additional guest fee being avoided.

Can you be specific? What are their policies regarding surveillance? I don’t see what’s wrong with a video record as evidence. What other kinds of evidence could there be?

I’ve been asked in the past to provided photos as documentation, including of guests in the act of causing damage by climbing on our roof (as a condition of receiving the security deposit!). I was perplexed to hear that I shouldn’t take a photo of my guests coming or leaving the property as proof of the number of guests. As you said, what other evidence is there?

I was directed to this link, in relation to ‘spying’ on my guests:

https://www.airbnb.ie/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-rules-about-electronic-surveillance-devices-in-listings

Moreover, I was told that even if I did take a photo of 3 guests leaving my listing, there was no way I could prove who the people in the photo were, as it could be anyone on my property. :expressionless:

Overall, I’m very frustrated. I understand why Airbnb needs to remain impartial, but they are also not giving me any recourse to prove what is going on. The onus remains on my guest suddenly being honest. Airbnb even said, if they did admit to having 3 guests staying at my listing, against their own Terms & Conditions, which require the accurate disclosure of the number of people staying at a listing, and my House Rules, they could make them pay for the additional guest fee, but if I ask them to leave they would be refunded the remaining nights (and I’m not in a financial position where this is a great option for me).

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@adel As you now realize you must put notification of this in advance. I believe if you had a camera already then they would accept the video evidence. But if not at least having this featured prominently in your listing will encourage people to disclose the number of guests in advance. The guest isn’t going to know.

These people have a lot of nerve to do this right under your nose and then deny it. And to think that Airbnb won’t take your word for it and won’t accept video evidence is infuriating. It’s your property, not airbnb’s. You say you are not in a financial position to cancel. It’s terrible that you are in this position that you have lost control over your own property. At this point it looks like you will have to suck it up and then let them have it in the review. Wait until the last minute to post it so they can’t see what you’ve written. Hopefully no airbnb host will ever rent to them again. Also when they check out make sure nothing is broken or missing or damaged. If there is anything document it and file a claim right away. I also suggest raising your price just a bit, a dollar or two a night so that over time you can recoup the cost of any unauthorized guests. And install that camera today. They probably don’t know that video evidence isn’t allowed. Now that you’ve confronted them, hopefully they won’t bring the girl back.

Hi @adel,

Thank you for the detailed comments.

The language used in the Airbnb article/post (as quoted below) is very broad. Literally interpreted, this could mean that hosts could not used external cameras to monitor their property. But many do, and it’s an entirely reasonable thing to do.

Our policy prohibits the use of a surveillance device by a guest to monitor a host or any third party present in the listing without the consent of that person.

Anyway, this is useful information. It’s good to know what to expect, even if it is bad news.

The part about hosts is just above the part you quoted and very clear:

If you’re a host and you have any type of surveillance device in or around a listing, even if it’s not turned on or hooked up, we require that you let guests know by including this information clearly in your listing description and photographs.If a host discloses the device after booking, Airbnb will allow the guest to cancel the reservation and receive a refund.

Why apply the part about guests to hosts? So as long as it’s disclosed in advance, they are fine. I would think disclosing it would go a long way towards preventing someone from trying to sneak in guests. If she already had the camera up she could go tell them I know you have a guest in there because I have the Ring camera video.

Hi @KKC,

This is confusing. On the one hand, you aren’t allowed to do surveillance of guests. On the other hand if you have a surveillance device, you need to let guests know about it. At first glance, this looks contradictory. If you aren’t allowed to do surveillance (which is kinda a loaded word) then why do you need to let guests know about the devices?

It doesn’t say that. It says it must be disclosed in advance. I believe the CSR is telling adel she can’t take pictures of them now because it wasn’t disclosed in advance.

Hi @KKC,

Again, the language is:

Our policy prohibits the use of a surveillance device by a guest to monitor a host or any third party present in the listing without the consent of that person.

Consent and disclosure aren’t the same thing. Unless the idea is to put a statement about (say) having outdoor cameras in the house rules, in which case the guest has accepted the “surveillance device” because it is part of the house rules.

I see a clear difference between a host having a camera and a guest having a camera.

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Indeed. I misread. I read the word “guest” as “host”. Let me read the article again.

If they had a big house party or something I would act differently. However, since it’s a whole house rental and it’s just one extra guest, you don’t have proof without surveillance, and life is too short to get all spun up about it, I would probably:

  1. Have documentation via the AirBnB thread that you called them out and they denied it. (which sounds like you’ve done it already.)

  2. Buy a Ring doorbell or security camera and be prepared to install it as soon as they checkout

  3. Count the minutes until they leave.

  4. Leave them the poor review they deserve…

We all learn with every guest how we’ll control bad situations to not allow them to happen again. Just chalk this one up to experience and don’t let it ruin your day.

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I was distressed and alarmed the first time this happened to me. The guests were unpleasant on check in so I knew this stay wouldn’t go well, but was super shocked they invited someone over with the intent to party with them. I saw the person pull up,and walk by my window. I live upstairs. I also felt like they had taken over my house to do as they pleased. When it looked like this dude was going to stay over I messaged my guest and told her he couldn’t and he needed to leave. He did. None of this was in my house rules (no unauthorized guests) at the time so I had to suck it up. The very next guests I had had their brother stay over without asking! They didn’t party but this was just as distressing. You can believe this became rule number one from that moment on. I don’t know what these guests are thinking. Because they rented a place they get to do what they want?

As for your guests acting like children and locking themselves in the toilet, that is ridiculous. Did you try sending an extra guest invoice? When they deny it, you can then get Air to mediate. I think taking photos now won’t help much. And yes, get cameras ASAP and change your listing to read property will be monitored for your security.

My blood is boiling reading this BS nonsense! The nerve of these guests to do this in your face! How old are they?

I would be so angry I wouldn’t be able to sleep anyway. So I would take someone with you and camp your ass right outside the entrance. When the three of them show up, deny the 3rd guest entry. Then let them know the police will be called for trespassing or some other violation that would fit - if the 3rd person comes back. And if they refuse to accept the additional person fee payment for the nights the other guest stayed…you will be pressing charges of blah blah blah or fraud or whatever fits the situation. Maybe discuss with the magistrate first.

Airbnb is ridiculous that they think you have nothing better to do but make up stories about a fake additional guest, and the only way to confirm is for the guest to admit to it.

But they let guests submit photos of upclose shots of dust, etc. There is no proof that those pics were taken in the host’s house. They could be taken anywhere. Yet, Air will allow that as evidence. Shaking my head…

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Me too! I’m glad someone else feels angry on her behalf. I was thinking maybe the internet or hot water would stop working in the rental and adel could just deny it. No, the internet is fine and it would be. And then they would go in the rental and it would go off. So strange. Host’s word against theirs. LOL.

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