The next Airbnb for WOMEN!

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Dear Helsi,
Sincere apologies.I must’ve overlooked and accidently scrolled past your comment and when I wanted to respond it was too late, I had exceed my daily limit of responses so i had to wait 12 hours. Thanks so much for your feedback first and foremost, you totally get the whole point and happy this resonates with you. For a limited time offer there will be no transaction fees, I need to do this to so i can get the supply (on the Host Side) since we need to entice people to use an unfamiliar platform (when they are accustomed to the success from a mega gigant such as Airbnb). I would like to do some analysis in this “free fee time” to determine the appropriate cost structure although the intention is to be below Airbnb’s fees (which are said to be typically 6-12% for the guest although many have complained about a lot more, and 3% + bank fees for the host). Payment will be via Paypal, the guest will pay at booking, the amount is held in escrow, after the booking date has occurred the guest will receive an alert to “confirm” the completed and successful experience upon which the funds are released to the Host. If the guest doesn’t respond at all, within a couple days following the end of a booking date the funds are automatically released to the host. Guests and Host can rate their experiences with each other as per normal booking sites. We will be starting in 17 locations/areas [NYC, San Fran, London, Paris, Copenhagen, Rome, Amsterdam, Dubrovnik, Cape Town, Sydney, Auckland, Marrakech, Bangkok, Greek Islands, Reykjavik, New Orleans, Cartagena]. Unfortunately, we have to start somewhere so we can’t offer a host guarantee which is stipulated in the terms & policies that hosts have to agree to. A lot of that initial validation will come from the reviews of others. Our goal is to have great success so we can offer the insurance Airbnb has.

Thanks so much for your insight and support. This has really been a very helpful discussion. I am quite discouraged about continuing to engage in this thread because many just don’t seem to get it. People pick and choose what they want stuff to apply to for the sake of complaining or being offended. There are so countless everyday cases where gender separation is considered perfectly normal (and not at all means of “discrimination”) so not sure why a woman’s decision to stay somewhere where she is sleeping, bathing
or spending time alone etc, would be any different and cause for so much of an uproar. I really hope you follow us on social media and stay in touch, you can always reach out, (contact button on our website) to further engage with additional questions/comments which have been VERY helpful and can be instrumental given the early stage we are in. Thanks again YOU ROCK!!

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Yes it certainly can! That female host may end up being the best resource for that female traveler. Since the host lives in her city she could give that female traveler the best advice for women navigating the city since she does it herself everyday. Again, everyone is focusing on just the “accommodation” aspect of the app when the intent is SO much more. Think of it as a support group. Right now the app is still just “social” where women are giving each other the tips, ideas, advice etc about each others city. For my recent solo trip to Iceland in Aug '17, I used my own app to connect with like-minded women in Iceland who helped give me the best advice. I felt prepared and had the insider knowledge about navigating that city (despite it being such a safe location which was intentional) as a young woman who lives in NYC and ventures off in my city alone everyday, I have been a similar resource for the women i connect with on my app who are asking about NYC. Adding accommodations is just another element to the app, as this is a demand for those women to also have this kind of access. It’s a preference, like a support group and people shouldn’t see it any other where. There is no controversy about female only bathrooms, or locker rooms, or college dorms, or choice for doctors, the list can go on and on…not sure why this would be any different.

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No one implied your son or any other male was a potential danger. It doesn’t have to be about sex or violent crimes, for reasons people shouldn’t be forced to explain (whether its religious, comfort level, wanted to make connects with someone who could relate to them and their experience as a female traveler, etc) they can have a preference. Im sure your son went to a college with a male only dorm, did you have the same outrage and complain to the school about being sexist? What about sports that separate men and women is that sexist too? what about support groups? Religious practices? Should my male friends be mad and calling me sexist if i threw a bacherorette or baby shower party where men are allowed/invited? I could really go on forever and give so many examples where you probably didn’t have outrage or even think twice about it the way you are now. This has been and is very positive for women. Telling women that they should stay home and not be allowed to travel if they are afraid to travel is offensive when FACTS/STATISTICS have proven women have MORE than a reasonable justification for having this fear. I myself have been robbed at gunpoint by a man and sexually harassed. Again, not assuming all men are violent or predators, just like I don’t assume the same about male doctors yet when i am asked I ALWAYS requests a female doctor. it’s just comfort thing! But because i am asked clearly it is considered acceptable to have that preference and not deemed discrimination, its unfortunate you don’t understand that

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Thanks so much! That really means a lot. I am so happy to have your support. Hope you follow us and sign up on our mailing list to get more detail. Or just get in touch via email as your insight has been invaluable. Very disappointed that so many in this thread have been so combative about a concept that is already applied and considered acceptable in everyday life. People do think they are “tough” when they are behind a computer or phone so the claws come out and I should have expected it. I just wonder if they are outraged and protesting so vocally about the million other everyday examples of acceptable gender separation (ie. religious practies, sports, locker rooms, doctors, public bathrooms, female-only hostels/doors, summer sleep away camp cabins, etc…). You’re awesome! Appreciate the feedback again

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I can see this as a pro & a con. There is a difference between marketing & practice. It is common for hospitality businesses to market to a target group but they must serve all guests.

Unless there is a reason such as a shared bathroom or no locking doors, I’m not sure that having a Women’s only rental service would be legal UNLESS it was considered targeted marketing with the host still permitting male guests.

In my area, an Airbnb host has developed her niche for appealing to women travelers. Her rental is close to the local medical school & hospital. The host is a retired female who bakes muffins for her guests. 75% of her reviews are from females who are here for school or job related purposes. She has reviews from males guests too. A theme in her guest reviews are: “I felt safe…” and “Location convenient to…”. She did not need a peer to peer site to develop her market.

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I appreciate the OP is well intentioned and I recognize there is a genuine problem to be addressed here. But is introducing an exclusion-based approach a good, lasting answer to the problem?

And having good intentions in something we do is not sufficient to actually solve the problem.

I thought we were striving to make society more inclusive for everyone. Isn’t this going in the other direction?

Going by this exclusionary approach, are you then in favor of women wearing full veils so that they don’t ‘feel vulnerable’? Aren’t you in principle in favor of segregation like blacks in the US had in the Jim Crow era or even the women’s carriage fiasco we saw in Britain recently?

By allowing for women to segregate themselves this way, aren’t you creating more division, reinforcing their fears that they have to somehow seclude themselves from men? How is that empowering in any way?

And like it was mentioned during the women’s coach case, does it mean that any woman who does not use such segregation ‘deserves’ to face the (negative) consequences of going astray?

If such regressive measures solved the actual problem, why – as a post alluded above – is there so much sexual abuse in India? Surely, women there ‘cover up’ a lot more than women do in the west, and they have lot more segregation in their social / cultural setup.

By suppressing pain, we are not solving the real malaise, which is allowed to fester underneath.

Why not take a positive, inclusive and liberal approach:

How about structuring the website and app as a Women’s (or eventually any group’s) Support System, including a Women’s Hotline or some such, while encouraging the participants to actually go about renting normally on Airbnb, based on the merit of the listing and host, and not their gender.
The website/app will offer advice as to which male hosts have misbehaved, and would allow the reporting of such an incident so that women – and even men – can then refuse to stay with such miscreants.

This is just one possible solution, I’m sure people on this forum can chip in with more positive solutions.

Instead of excluding one half of the human race in trying to solve the problem, why not co-opt men (surely there are men who don’t want to see women abused or feel vulnerable?) into building a safer environment for one and all, irrespective of their gender or any other factor?

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This isn’t about segregation or exclusion @Astaire, as far as I can see, but a service that provides a support network for women traveling including accommodation and advice.

I always find it interesting when (mostly men) get up in arms about women creating support networks for themselves whether in business, in life or when travelling.

There is a lot more sexual abuse in places like India because of the way women are perceived in society and their rights or lack of them. Nothing to do with what they do or don’t wear.

We don’t have a problem with men’s or women’s rugby, football or hockey do we?

It’s just about market segmentation.

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Hello @Maxine_Outerbridge

Thanks for the feedback.

However you didn’t respond to a couple of my key questions - how are you going to market your service to hosts and guests - you will need quite a substantial budget to invest in on and offline marketing for your target groups - media, advertising, digital etc

Absolutely understand you need to start with selected cities and then role out - you have chosen quite a few across the world so no mean feat to advertise in all these area’s (inbound and outbound).

Please don’t leave this forum - it’s a great sounding board.

If you think the varied feedback is difficult here is difficult to handle wait until you start promoting it through social media etc. The vitriol on there to prominent women politicians, writers, artists etc and for speaking out on behalf of women and women’s rights is truly sickening.

For example a woman who campaigned to have Jane Austen on our ten pound note (we have never had a woman on one before) received death and rape threats from men for having the temerity to suggest it.

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There will be no marketing around the exclusion of men for rentals. We will not be marketing as “an Airbnb service that excludes” nor will any listing indicate that men can’t stay in the homes (I am well aware and had a lawyer look into these laws/regulations). We are marketing the platform itself which is a social network app for female traveller and as such all the features of the app, including this new one with rentals will be available to all the users, which happen to be women. So it is implied that all the host and guest will be women. I made this subject “the next Airbnb for women” to see what kind of response or interest or feedback I would get. The app will have a lot else: access to ticket deals/discounts such as museums, tours etc,…Tips and suggestions on where to go or what to do in each featured city, abilities to connect with other travelers ( and I want to be able to filter so users can find those travel for leisure or business as many women travel alone for business and would love to have connected with other female business travelers or locals). Because this is an Airbnb forum the focus of the discussion is on the rentals but there is so much more to the concept and purpose of the app. It’s like a support network helping women feel more empowered, connected and informed to venture off in confidence. Thanks

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Gender separation was seen necessary in cases like public toilets, locker rooms, etc where folk are changing clothes / momentarily unclothed in the potential presence of others*. So the solution that developed was to have separate spaces for men and women for these activities – mind you, this is a narrow, very heterosexual approach, it doesn’t cater to the non-heterosexual minority.

What the OP is advocating is that male presence be excluded in the entire living space in a hosting situation. Even though, the guest rooms have doors and the ‘shared’ bathroom is not used at the same time. This implies that any social contact between men and women, albeit within the closed space, is liable to men abusing women.

It’s preferable to foster a setup where men who might be inclined to abuse women cannot (continue to) host at all and elevate every woman’s confidence in feeling safe in such a system, whatever the gender of the host. Anything else keeps the women in a weaker position.




*When I’m say in small café and I find two toilets - both fully separate enclosures, with their own bog and sink and door, and one door it says Hombre and the other Mujer, to me it’s pointless.

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Definitely speak to @ Airbnb about how they are planning to do that @Astaire - haven’t seen them do anything about this publicly. Great idea.

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Believe me I have quite a back bone but I don’t see the benefit to engaging with people who completely missed the point and want to defend their individuals sons or male family members who were literally never the subject in the matter whatsoever. If they are good men, then they shouldn’t be offended and understand that because of a few (an by a few I mean a lot) of bad apples in the world, women happen to be at more risk and vulnerable. But even without any of those factors, I’m sure their sons enjoy a “guys night out” and that same concept of wanting to be in the comfort of like-minded people whom you can relate to and get a lot of support from is also a major drive of the app. Many users are avid solo traveler who have no fear at all but just simply have a preference.

I want to make good use of my time and energy and not engage in counter-productive discussions with people who have no intention whatsoever of needing, using or referring this service but to criticize harshly about it. For those in this thread who may need, use refer the feedback and insight has truly been invaluable (including yours) and for that I am very grateful! Have a lot more to think about and consider now.

As to your other question, without giving away my entire approach, I plan to market this as “female friendly accommodation options” that is available on the app. I don’t have a large budget. Use of social media will be heavy obviously as it’s cheaper, I’ve contacted several Airbnb management companies in each city to seek partnership, affiliate and influencer marketing, develop local brand ambassadors, seek affiliate/partnership with female only hostels (or hostels with female only accommodation) etc. It’s funny because a female only hostels or hostels with female only dorms/floors is perfectly legal yet people are up in arms about the same kind of concept but in people homes and personal space. :thinking:

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I would think most such men are of the type who do not like women empowered and would like them to ‘know their place’.
But why should these support groups to empower women been exclusionary? Why should they limit the presence, involvement or input of men? That both - in principle tarnishes all men as a group, but is also less efficient.

Think about it this way, if any group in society that was - in reality or in perception, oppressed or disadvantaged, is it good enough to have only members of that group take up the issue?

If that is our approach, would we have gone anywhere with the (slavery) Abolition movement in Britain in the 1800’s? If it was left only to the blacks resident in Britain to make the case.

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Thank you. @Maxine_Outerbridge’s website/app could be structured as a layer on top of Airbnb, rather to trying to recreate something similar - so we retain the strengths and successes of Airbnb while supplementing them with a Support system that caters to women’s specific needs.

Why not make this a Confident Women on Airbnb website/app? One where women stay in any accommodation on Airbnb as is normal but can connect to other women travelling in the same city whether for help or just company. And on the website, they have access to other resources available globally.

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Thanks for such great and awesome ideas. The app is not only about accommodation. In fact right now it’s only social so I wouldn’t want to change that to merely focus on accommodations only but I do see where you’re going with that. Great idea! Thanks so much for your comments :hugs:

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Because that would then be part of Airbnb and Maxine is wanting to set up her on brand which is much wider than Airbnb hosts.

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@Maxine_Outerbridge - I work in marketing and communications and can tell you now you will struggle to make any impact with an approach that focuses mainly on social media.

You need to invest in PPC and other online advertising and third party partnerships with brands which engage your target audience and share your values. You need media relations and you need to work with travel and relevant female lifestyle bloggers and travel sites.

If you have a small budget you shouldn’t be focussing on creating a global brand but do what the Airbnb boys did, start local and grow from there. Would also suggest business start up loans and crowd funding.

No point having a great concept if no-one knows about it.

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I’m not suggesting that precise title be adopted - but something along those lines, conveying that idea, that confidence comes from the support network (and within) and not from segregation into women-only accommodation - and yes, wider than Airbnb.

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It’s up to Maxine but as has been mentioned multiple times now there are lots of women who travel and who for religious or cultural reason can’t share space with men, or those who don’t feel safe.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with a brand which caters for women - thousands do. You have an issue with it.

http://www.venusadventures.travel/

Going back and forth won’t change anything.

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@Maxine_Outerbridge yes you’ve had a lot of pushback on here. If you’re going to move forward with it that’s an indication of what to expect. Now you can perservere with your idea knowing the pushback to expect.

I’ve read peoples’ responses with interest and I can understand where they come from. However, the way I think of this is that you aren’t intending to EXclude anyone, your intent is to INclude women. The nature of doing that means that people may choose to feel slighted or upset by that.

I am a married, heterosexual caucasian woman with both sons and daughters in their 20’s and 30’s. I am a Christian. I have many friends and family who are gay, transgender, gender neutral and different ethnicities.

There are specific places for LGBT to stay (a friend of mine owns and operates one) as well as sites for them to go to to find them. If someone feels more comfortable staying there I choose to not be offended by it. If there is an Asian guest and someone chooses to stay at a hosts’ home who is Asian, I choose not to be offended by that, either. I am happy that people are finding places to stay at where they feel most comfortable.

In the same way, I am not offended by your proposal to have a place where women can connect with other women when traveling. I might even use it and recommend it to my daughters. I have travelled alone and there have been times that I WAS in danger. I don’t think my husband or sons would choose to be offended by me choosing to stay with women, in fact, it may be a relief to them.

Maybe I’ll suggest to my boys that they start a site for male travelers… beer in the fridge and the sports channel running 24/7 at all the places that want to sign up for that. (Yeah, stereotyping, but I’m saying it to show my point.) If that appeals to someone… go for it! Why would I be angry that I’m exluded? It’s not my thing but it might be someone else’s.

Anyway, I just wanted to give an alternate and supportive opinion for you, despite knowing that I will likely also need to have a strong backbone for the comments to come after posting this publicly.

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