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I live in the allergy capitol of the world: the Midwest US. All the pollen is horrible due to the seasonal and moist climate and the variety of plants. Last week I was watching clouds of pollen leave the trees every time the wind blew. Ugh.
I’m “supposedly” in control of the money because I set when they pay, what percentage when, etc. But they pay through VRBO. Which is why I haven’t gotten the money yet. My repeat guests had no problem just paypaling me directly because they’d stayed here before and we’d gotten to know each other. Since I’m established and this is just extra income, the late payment in theory doesn’t bother me much. But here’s a screenshot of the payment details:
This is my 2nd booking. He paid almost a month ago the 2 separate payments I have set up based on 50% when booking and 50% 15 days in advance, and yet none of the dates match my settings, none of the numbers seem to add up correctly. So I don’t honestly know how much I’ll get and when. Thankfully the guests so far have been great. I honestly wouldn’t recommend it though. The only reason I signed up was to diversify and get guests I wouldn’t be able to get otherwise and not rely so much on Air.
And you haven’t got any money yet? Yikes. If the competition is so incompetent, no wonder Airbnb is getting all the business. Have you tried asking customer support?
@faheem -
I would not call VRBO/HSA “incompetent”; just different. I have what they call “alternate payments” and I invoice with PayPal, so the guests can use a PayPal account or a credit card - their choice. For listings that use “Homeaway Payments” (processed through their payment processing partner), there reportedly is a lag for the first payment or two ( @Sarah_Warren - read about your issue on the Homeaway owner’s forum () - you may have to call to get the monies released earlier).
Many, if not most, of the owners get some money prior to check-in. I require 50% downpayment on booking, and the balance 45 days before check in date. But sarahwarren is right - the clientele is different, and usually plans much further ahead of time than the AirBnB guests.
You’ve asked about spams - Homeaway/VRBO has the same problem. They tell all the guests to NOT send money via wire, and they have a process where, if you process your booking though the site, they protect you. As to the security (damage) deposit - that is a bit of a risk. I don’t actually charge one, but my rates are high enough that I self-insure. Guests rely on past reviews, for one. If I did charge a deposit, and I tried to keep $100 US out of it for breaking a drinking glass, that guest would leave me a horrible review. They also offer a damage insurance policy for $59 US that some guests buy to protect themselves.
We get 90% of our guests from HA/VRBO and 10% from AirBnB. But most of our bookings are 3-14 months out, which fits the VRBO/HA users better than AirBnB.
Yeah, this is why I’m waiting to see if future bookings get me my payments sooner. Because I like the clientele, it’s just a totally different format than AirBnB. That’s awesome that they offer travel insurance, that probably is what makes the clientele better: they’re more responsible and it’s on them if they didn’t buy the insurance and then have a problem. AirBnB wants everyone to feel good and share, hence the siding with guests and minimal payouts in resolution and driving prices down, etc.
If you take check, then the guest has to trust you, or they can sue you in court.
But if you take credit card then a guest will just do a chargeback if they feel you wrongfully wittheld the damage deposit. Another thing is that VISA (not sure of the other cards) does not allow their card to be used for damages without the cardholder’s consent. It does not matter if the guest signed a contract giving you permission to charge for damages. The cardholder must give their consent after the damages have occurred…
I have ;mentioned this before and I have a feeling that’s why Air is not so quick to pay out even with all the evidence in the world. If the guest does not give their consent, then either Air can charge the guest’s card and hope they don’t chargeback, or Air has to reimburse the host out of their own pocket and go after the guest in collections.
Just to add to this Faheem. HA’s “protection” only kicks in if a guest has filed a chargeback and their bank didn’t reimburse them. So in essence…the guest is already protected because they are paying with a credit card anyway. But HA had to come up with some reason to all of a sudden charge travelers a booking fee.
If a guest does a chargeback it is the host who pays the chargeback fees and will have the money removed from their account (during dispute). HA will be nowhere to defend you from an unscrupulous guest.
So is the moral that one should not accept credit cards with HA? I’m not totally clear how chargebacks work, but presumably that is only possible if you have a merchant account. If you don’t accept the chargeback, the credit card company will presumably close your account. Or should one use “Homeaway Payments”?
For direct bookings I prefer paypal as there’s minimal fees and an electronic “paper trail”. People can pay with their card via paypal, so I wonder how a chargeback works with that?
No. The moral is that all the listing sites each have their own snaky tactics
The best payment method (for a host) is going to be one in which the guest cannot reverse charges (check, bank transfer, etc.). The best payment method (for a guest) is going to be one in which the guest can reverse charge,s if host does not deliver what was promised (credit card, etc.)
This is just a general example - and won’t get into any details of chargebacks. But let’s say an Air guest books your place with their credit card. You advertise wifi, breakfast, extra bathroom, etc. - but you didn’t provide the guest with any of those things. Let’s say for some crazy reason that Air sides with you and not the guest, because you somehow convince Air that the guest is making these accusations up. So Air tells guest case is closed…too bad so sad.
Now guest can run to the bank that issued them the credit card. Guest fills out a form to file a “chargeback” - now the bank will play judge. It’s just another word for “reversal.” Now Air is guilty until proven innocent. Bank has taken the funds back until a final decision is issued. Air needs to show their evidence and if the bank determines it is not sufficient…the money remains with the cardholder. And Air has been fined with a chargeback fee too.
This works the same way when you use Homeaway’s payment system. It’s the host who is on the line with chargebacks, not HA. Bank comes in and swoops it out of your account. and hits you with chargeback fees.
So back to HA…they charge guests a service fee (like Air) and tell them that it is to protect them. HA wants all payments processed through their credit card processor (YapStone). HA marks up the credit card fees and is able to profit off that. A year ago their CFO said that the reason they initially set the rates at 2.5% was to get owners enrolled to use it. They now charge 2.9% for domestic and more for international.
What HA doesn’t tell the guest (only in fine print) is that they need to file a chargeback first. Only if their bank doesn’t award them the funds…then HA will step in with their “protection.”
Cons: a month delay on your first payment. 5-7 business day delay in payouts. Guest pays according to your terms (50% at booking and 50% 15 days in advance are mine) but you don’t get paid out until day after check-in and then experience the week delay.
If you aren’t a lawyer, you should probably be one. To be clear, that’s a compliment, though I’m not overly fond of lawyers.
Then the trick is to get the guest to accept such terms.
But, if chargebacks are such an attractive option, I’m surprised more people don’t do it. Though maybe they are honest?
I note that with Airbnb, at least, there don’t seem to be options about how to get paid. it’s basically direct transfer to your bank account. And Airbnb handles the backend, the details of which are invisible to the host.
So with HA, there is no advantage over “Homeaway Payments” vs acting as a credit card merchant and charging the card oneself, aside from the actual hassle of having to do so?
You have to understand the history of VRBO and the direction they are headed now. The advantage to using HA payments is that you have a higher placement in search results, and your annual fee is lower than someone who does not use it. There is also a commission program (pay per booking) where there is no annual fee and you give HA 8% of each booking.
The more service fees and credit card fees that HA can collect from you, the higher you will place. The lower your rates, the quicker your property converts, and the higher you place. HA present search results in this manner. It doesn’t matter to them that the traveler is being presented properties far far away from where they really want to be. It’s about HA’s bottom line.
Think about Craigslist style advertising (old VRBO) transitioning gradually to an Airbnb style where they handle payments. OF course both Air and HA want to be like Booking.com with all instant book, and also handle the money too.
Oh, yes, I forgot the search issue. These issues are more complicated than one would think. What is really needed is a mathematical model which one could try to optimize.
If I try HA, I’ll go with the commission program till I see whether I get any bookings, obviously.
We have now experienced what is 3 of 4 horrible VRBO guests. 2 of them threw parties without our consent (like BIG ONES, we’re talking 40-50 people after lying to us and saying it was 3-6 people). And as much as hosts want to chastise other hosts for not screening property, let me tell you, we have hosted well over 50 groups through Airbnb and only 1 has ever been a problem. VRBO’s screening process is just terrible and leaves a lot on the table. No user profile, no guest reviews besides stars, and the fact is, the guest can just LIE. Terrible caliber of guests. We have since hid our listing.
VRBO does not screen guests on your behalf and they never did. It was an advertising venue, and is trying to transition to another AirBnB, but is not there yet. You have to do your own screening - pipl.com; internet search, call and talk to the guest before booking, driver’s license, etc.
You also need a good contract with real consequences for breaking the contract (such as throwing a party). It’s amazing how many people write in their contracts “Don’t do this” but then never state a penalty if you do that!
If they are charging a booking fee now (at 10% higher than Airbnb) for the past year as VRBO has been doing, I don’t think they are allowed to use such an excuse anymore. In any event, I do have penalties stated even in our listing. I have Instant Book for Airbnb, I do NOT have Instant Book for VRBO and would not recommend it. It is simply my professional assessment that the quality of VRBO guests are poor.
I haven’t seen a difference between guests from VRBO/Homeaway and guests from AirBnB. I am sorry you’ve had such poor luck with VRBO/HA, but three poor guests does not mean all guests that use VRBO/HA are poor.
To be clear, that’s a compliment, though I’m not overly fond of lawyers.