Mamma Mia! Che fregatura!

I’m new to this forum, but I also just got the notice about the new cancellation policy. My listings are also in Italy. This stinks. My guests are primarily North Americans who plan their trips up to 6 months in advance. We tend not to focus on the last minute travel who is looking for a bargain, for us people planning travel to Europe only 30 days in advance are the least profitable. They expect big discounts from desperate owners eager to fill nights at any price. We also find that last minute bookers tend to be the most time consuming & stressful to work with, so it costs us more in time & effort (e.g. disorganized, don’t read anything, expect to be able to check in at any time like a hotel).

The old policy was bad enough, even the Strict designation which has been one reason we have been so cautious of using Airbnb at all. The new Strict policy is lousy too not only because it punishes us with a higher fee for a Strict cancellation policy, but even worse is that 30 days in advance for a 100% refund really hurts us. 30 days out is when we typically offer deep discounts for unfilled nights. Chances of a decent booking are not good at 30 days out since travelers to Italy from North America plan well in advance of that to get best airfares, get time off work for a trip to Europe or to use frequent flier miles.

For example I have a few open nights in Sept & Oct in a Florence apartment that normally rents for €115 Euros/night. The Airbnb price tip suggests I rent it for €45/night to get a booking in the next 30 days. No thanks, at that price it is like me paying the guests to stay there!

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I had my cancellations set for moderate, had a guest missed her flight and wanted a full refund for her 3 days. I told her no, as I had turned away 4 other bookings to facilitate her, she only got want the Terms of airbnb stated. I have switched back to strict. One of the bookings I turned away was 2 guests for 2 weeks, and don’t like this new policy.

There is always small claims court, and yes, receipts are proof. We stayed in many private houses before Airbnb existed, and only once we did not get our 100$ deposit back. Its funny how we have a friend who is Danish. And he is kind of proud of his nation. He belongs to Danish king’s family, one of the many cousins. When we were worried about deposit, he assured us saying that we dont have to worry in Copenhagen, people are the most honest in a world.
That was the only time we never got our deposit bac, though the host replied to us few times how she is trying to eposit it to our account. It was worth it anyway, we paid very little for the place

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Please correct me if I misunderstand.

First of all, you can still have a “strict” policy, you’ll just pay 5% on all bookings instead of 3%. This is still a good value for most hosts. Very experienced hosts like @konacoconutz and @Mearns have already mentioned that Airbnb provides good value at 3% and would still do so at an even higher rate.

Second, it seems to me that this favors hosts who offer rooms in their homes over vacation rentals for the reasons @Chris mentioned. Is that part of the reason airbnb is implementing it? I know some people see it as greedy Airbnb but aren’t they giving up service fees on cancellations? What am I missing?

This isn’t going to affect me much at all because I have a lot of last minute bookings and people with more non-discretionary travel.

Despite any “sky is falling” rhetoric I just don’t see that this is a big deal for many hosts. Airbnb will continue to grow their business with hosts that can be flexible, that can instant book and so on. Another platform will spring up to fill any void that is created.

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I think @konacoconutz put it very eloquently! We have been hosting on ABB since 2009 and the fee increase was bound to happen. Not sure I agree with adding fees in relationship to cancellation policy, but 5% is not high enough for me to change from Strict.

In our two ‘rentals’ it wouldn’t be the end of the world if we got a last minute cancellation(we’ve been on strict forever, and I have no plans on changing), but when people rent our main residence there is a lot of planning that goes into getting it ready for guests and relocating for us. If I went to Mod or Flex and someone cancelled last minute I would definitely feel the burn of losing time and money.

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I haven’t gotten many cancellations and I usually refund the money anyway. Last time I got a cancellation, a week in advance, I raised the price on the room and got two one night bookings to replace he single two night booking. I made $30 more and got two good reviews out of it. And @EllenN has said that if you get a cancellation you get a bump up in search.

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I guess it’s how a place is priced. The opportunity cost of a last minute cancellation for me is high, and I rarely, if ever, get last minute bookings – even now as I finally turned on IB. Plus, my area has a lot of Airs and new ones coming on all of the time. If I move to flexible, a guest could book out months in advance, find a cheaper place at the last minute, and I’m SOL – just like Chris was describing with Booking.com. I’m looking forward to Air getting some competition, because that’s happening, too.

I have a friend who is quite wealthy. When he got back into the dating world after his divorce, he would ask a woman out on a date, reserve a table at the three most expensive restaurants, and then give her the choice of which restaurant she preferred – when he arrived at her house just prior to dinner time! Then he would cancel the other two reservations. While this is bad, most sought-after restaurants can fill that table. I don’t have that many customers.

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Well, people (if they have any sense) consider their choices. In a world where Airbnb (and others like it exist), one has to make the case for handling security deposits oneself. And how would one know whether there were any problems?

Random anecdote: once upon a time, I rented a room in a house in Chicago, in the area called Little Italy. When I was leaving, my landlord discovered that I had piled carboard boxes inside a space with sliding doors in front, with mirrors mounted on the front. And one of the mirrors had developed a small crack. He told me that he was going to deduct $125 for that. I never did see a cost estimate or anything. That was in the summer of 1996. I wasn’t happy, but I was leaving, so there wasn’t anything I could do about it. And this landlord seems like a relatively decent chap. I imagine there is a lot of scope for screwing the tenant there.

So, was there some technical difficulty, or do you think you were cheated? And how was Copenhagen? Denmark is by reputation and statistics one of the most together places in the world, so I can certainly see how people would be proud of it.

Interesting. What Airbnb is doing is what I said many times that is a ‘mathematical certainty’ they will do, when one considers the economic forces at play.

Airbnb at 3% is too low when one considers what its main competitors are indeed charging for less services. Just try to deal with Bookings.com for a reality check. As the cost of doing business rises it guarantees that the 3% will inevitably go up, one of the primary reasons is the cost to handle so many disputes, expectations and hassles. Every time I hear (or read) people actually calling for the slightest question or reasons I cringe, for then it demands Airbnb to increase their staff, adds cost and the fee is the first one to change to cover the added cost.

Airbnb is primarily a US business. The costs of all its social ‘forces’ (discrimination, lawsuits, fights with municipalities, etc) all taking place in the US at once is like walking a minefield and one never knows when one steps on a fresh one. Every time one detonates, it will add to costs, which eventually WILL be passed on to either guests or hosts, or both

Thirdly, you all tend to be in agreement Airbnb’s emphasis is on the guest, not the host. Airbnb absolute number of hosts ‘appears’ to be increasing, at least in those areas where local municipalities can’t stop it, and as more get into the renting business act, their primary emphasis will naturally shift to get more guests. So how do they do that…

By making it easier for guests to book, and cancel. Eliminating the cancelling fee, encourages guests to book in the first place, with little to loose, unless they wait too long to cancel, which depends on the host’s cancellation policy. Airbnb appears as the good guy, the host is the heavy.

The Strict cancellation policy has changed, drifted from 30 > 7 days as I wondered before. My guests are indeed under different policies, according to when they originally booked. Now in essence Airbnb is really going back to Strict 30 days. Airbnb is trying to get some uniformity.

Changes are indeed coming, what else is new. In time, the original 3% will become the ‘good old days’.

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[quote=“Mearns, post:30, topic:8147, full:true”]
Airbnb at 3% is too low when one considers what its main competitors are indeed charging for less services. Just try to deal with Bookings.com for a reality check.[/quote]

AirBnB is takes 13% at the moment. Split over host 3% and guest 10%.
Booking.com takes 12% from the host only.
Tiscover takes 15%

What most hosts do is, is mortise these fees in the price.
So in the end the guest will see no difference.

Other platforms may even become cheaper, and guests will move.

I am lucky that I am in a market that has had privat rentals (rooms, appartments, small b&b’s) since the start of tourism. AirBnB does not have a big footprint here, and if their emphasis stay on the guests they will never get one either.

Yes, it seems that AirBnB is going to focus more on quantity of bookings, than on the amount per booking.
They are going to focus more on the short rentals, city trips, business trips.
They were already not the best choice for vacation rentals, like discussed in the topic about the villa in Tuscany.

Now they are making themselves even less attractive for vacation rentals. I use AirBnB mainly to fill the short term gaps, and to get some exposure.

But this bring will make your other topic about not depending on AirBnB even more important. The new policy will make the income from AirBnB even less reliable.

I do not know what your knowledge is about economics. But it seems AirBnB is shifting their focus toward cash-flow rather than profit. My knowledge of economic terms in English is not good enough to explain it, but this behavior is quite typical. They are building a business on money that is not theirs, but the either the hosts or the guests. Creating a very big bubble.

For some, not for others.

Shifting? There is no reason to think that Airbnb is profitable now. Increasing revenue and guest numbers is probably their goal.

When I have someone book with me (a host) via Airbnb they charge me 3% thus far, VRBO 10.55%; why I favor going with Airbnb, based on what I get payed. If and when I am a guest via Airbnb, the 13% will of course concern me, till then, it doesn’t.

Just checked with my hotel friend, he says he pays 18% with bookings made via Bookings and 20% via FlipKey; the reasons he doesn’t know, but that is what he says.

I am sure she just pocketed the money. If there was technical dificulties, she could at least say something at the end, but she just went silent.
I liked Copenhagen, I went there mostly because when i was 6, i read a story by Hans Cristian Anderson “Little mermaid”, and i said then to myself, one day i will go there and see that little mermaid.
So, i went there few decades later, and it was just a small statue of little mermaid. We made pictures, went to the restaurant across from her, and had lots of wine. But then again i make up reasons to go somewhere, like i went the second time to Budapest the same summer because i 'left there my sweater", but in fact i just loved it, and had a great time there.
I will probably never go to Copenhagen again. I am done with expensive countries. Not only the weather was so miserable, but everything there is incredibly expensive.

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Criag’s is just fine. The same people look at Airbnb as do Craig’s. You just have to be a little more thorough in screening them. I’ve gotten the nicest Canadians for our desert place off of Craigs.

Oh. Well, court is a lot of work, and you have to have some presence in the country to fight the case. And in many places (and certainly in India) the court system doesn’t function properly. This is one instance where booking through a system (not necessarily Airbnb) which has a review system would make sense. At least a traveler could say that “so and so screwed me out of my deposit”. It would hard to prove one way or another, but if there were multiple such reviews, it would be persuasive.

Chomsky said in a talk something like

the biggest waste of money and time in the world is in a court

You could dispute that (my money would be on formal schooling) but he certainly has a point.

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I posted on Airbnb’s FB page and, yes, it turns out that it is only for Italy. For my fellow Italian Airbnb hosts, I am sorry. I was in Italy for most of June and you are the nicest people. Who knows why Airbnb decided to single you out.

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Don’t feel too bad for them. It’s going to be all of us soon enough. :frowning:

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Hey guys, please don’t mention again that airbnb takes just 3% from us hosts. On a 100$ night it takes 3$ from hosts and 15$ from guests (it says it ranges from 6%-15% but for most 0-500$ bookings its closer to 15%).
This is a 18$ fee from a 115$ booking, or 15,6%, and this is what it practically charges for every booking in our place.
Many hosts forget that the guest actually pays the 115$ and this is the market rate of their listing, so they should be concerned for both sides fees.
Personally I don’t get why airbnb charges guests the extra fees and mostly confuses them, rather than as in most platforms just charge the host (15% ±) and we will adjust our prices accordingly.

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