How to sue AirBnB in small claims court

The $5000 was not for leaving a bad review @GutHend . It was for refusing to ask Airbnb to take it down even when it was demonstrated to her that it was wrong and the host subsequently losing income as a result.

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In a funny way, it is INVALUABLE to have your skeptical eye on this case, @GutHend , because it really helps me prepare for the next steps in both cases.

To be honest, if I were her I would not only appeal until the last possible appeal, based on your publications like the video and this forum, I would counter claim.

On what basis?

So it’s not about the damages caused by AirBnB, it’s about winning a defamation suit?

??? To win damages, yep, you have establish that all the legal elements of defamation are present. In both cases.

She didn’t have any bad intentions, but felt it was her task to use the two tools offered by AirBnB (reporting it to them and review) to keep people from harm. And she does still think that her perceived reality is… well… uhm… reality.

Yes, this is discussed in the audio in the video. As the judge said (paraphrase), “Even if your client thought there was a good-faith basis to make the initial report, once she was shown that it was not a gun, it was negligent not to get in touch with AirBNB.”

Did you get to see the reviews she left for other hosts? (AirReview) Maybe there you could find an indication that she likes to cause trouble for hosts.

All the other reviews she has left are pleasant and positive.

Why didn’t they immediately take down the review that got one of their guests into trouble? Why didn’t they reinstate the host’s listing before it got to court?

THIS OBSERVATION is critical. AirBNB blows you off, tells you “you are off the platform and this discussion is closed.” UNLESS you FILE SUIT, that’s the complete end of the matter!!! Hence my desire to share this fact with hosts on this forum and a couple of others — who are not aware they can sue for their damages (described in umpteen threads on many host forums). EVERYONE thinks incorrectly they are bound to arbitration.

Really the place someone should post this video is on the official hosts forum … which I may do once the dust settles. So many hosts in shock and pain showing up and thinking they have no recourse.

Why don’t they pay a lawyer for their guest, who was just using the companies tools for what they were designed for?

I was VERY concerned that Air was INDEED paying her legal costs — until @Brian_R170 (so much gratitude) posted the AirBNB Hell link, where she indicated she was footing the bill herself. When if they were in fact crazy enough to cough up representation, it should be me for her false review.

I highly doubt that this judgement will stand when being appealed.

Based on what?

If this happens it will put a BOMB beneath everything that is review based.

Actually, you are right, but … a good bomb!

You appear to think, “This will create a chilling effect on negative reviews in a radical departure from current law.” Defamation law apparently dates from the 17th century! My legal approach is nothing new in that sense. … It is what I am relying on in this case. The CHILLING effect will definitely be not on careful and accurate hosts and guests, but on both hosts and guests who recklessly and negligently throw out false information AND REFUSE to correct it. And, imo, it is time for this to happen.

Also, if the guest loses the appeals again, I will have to say “only in the USA” .

Not sure I follow you. The UK, Australia and Canada have MORE pro-plaintiff defamation laws.

See: Defamation Law FAQ: International & Internet Issues - RM Warner Law | Defamation Law, Internet Law, Business Law

I’m not sure you are following this element: the simple fact is that you cannot post false information in a review, even if well-intentioned, and thus must correct your false statement or face legal jeopardy. You just can’t proceed this way. Truth is a defense, but guessing, or stubbornly clinging to your falsehood, is not.

I do really hope that you totally win your case against AirBnB. What they did to you, really is not excusable in any way and should be punished, very hard. It’s a really good thing you are taking them to court and lots of success with it

Thank you! Off to case prep :slight_smile:

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And in your case the issue is demonstrably false. It is not a subjective claim like, the place was dated or stinky or too far from town. Also, @GutHend makes out like you only hold the guest responsible. Not so! Airbnb will have their day! Their process is deeply flawed.

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I don’t read it that way, looks like she might be footing the bill herself.

Irrespective, well done and good luck with your next appearance!

I have subsequently hired an attorney at my own expense to defend myself and have a court date in February of 2019. Airbnb does not offer protection to renters, only hosts in the event situations go awry.

I reached out to Airbnb, immediately after being served court docs by the police, at my place of employment no less. Airbnb’s response was to contact my lawyer for advise on the matter.

People should know, that while Airbnb is a review-based platform, your honest review can land you in court, without any support or protection from Airbnb.

JF

You are very welcome! Glad to see you see some advantages of my somewhat different viewpoint on the case. To be honest, I often play devil’s advocate in real life, and most people actually appreciate me for it :pleading_face::partying_face:.

I’m far from a lawyer, maybe that also explains my deviating viewpoint :blush:, so all that I say is probably wrong in some way or another: Privacy? Accusing her of false statements, while this is difficult to actually prove? Taking on the wrong party? Because first of all you put yourself in trouble by having this rubber toy there and now you are blaming it on her? Etc. …

Then why would she be unwilling to change her review?

Because it’s out of proportion, and your listing was taken down by AirBnB because of their own failing protocol, not by the guest. The guest just did her job, but forgot to take it up with AirBnB to remove the review.
Then again: The review (the actual defamation), wether it stands or is deleted, has nothing to do with your listing getting deleted. Your listing got deleted because of the report. Does reporting something, true or false, fall under defamation?
And even: Had she gotten AirBnB to remove or adjust the review, maybe AirBnB would still have been so stupid to just deny you hosting through their platform.

Why-o-why is this demonstrably false? Sorry, but I don’t agree. I don’t want to doubt your words of @Puppylover, but a sensible judge should. Who’s to know if there was a real gun or a rubber one when the guest was present?
Maybe you should already prepare yourself for such allegations. Maybe a good lawyer might even use your email to the guest to try to prove that you are safety obsessed :japanese_ogre: and therefor probably have a real gun hanging around too.

For the sake of your case, let me play Devil’s Advocate :japanese_goblin: once more: Why didn’t you immediately publicly react to the guest’s review? Or weren’t you given the chance?

If it is not too late, PuppyLover, but on the point of "Why-o-why is this demonstrably false? " is there any way that you can reach out to a previous guest that you have demonstrated your rubber gun too and who would be willing to testify to that? Or a friend? The church pastor?

Here is a case from 2017, different card, same procedure: Thrown off for absurd violation?

The logical consequence has to be, not to put all eggs into one basket. Diversify, list your rooms on booking, homeshare, local sites, contact the hospitals for traveling staff …
Wasn’t there a list of all possible sites on Excel at one point?

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They can throw you off no warning. Check there TOS. Issue in our case. Airbnb gives us 8 reservations for every one the others book. They are truly the Microsoft of the apartment rental biz. After being re-Instated. We made a pact to just basically say yes to Airbnb no matter what. Missing payments. Photos paid for not received. Missing towel. We basically let go. We don’t speak to them through phone or extranet. We think twice before saying or writing anything. I suggest if you need them. To do the same.

@JohnF

Eagle eye for misplaced modifiers! You are now officially my editor du jour. I have fixed that passage (I think):

I was VERY concerned that Air was INDEED paying her legal costs — until @Brian_R170 (so much gratitude) posted the AirBNB Hell link, where she indicated she was footing the bill herself.

@GutHend, I filed a motion to bring physical evidence to court, and the motion was approved, so EVERYTHING (the dog’s toy basket and all its contents) was there in court. And, it’s rubber, and the judge and the defense attorney could see it.

The defense attorney did not bring any evidence (photographs, eyewitnesses) to show a real gun was there. If it WAS there, it would have been planted!

So, demonstrably false. There simply wasn’t a gun there. There’s never been any weapons in my house, baring my rapier wit. j/k


Couldn’t reply to the guest’s review because I was delisted.


The guest’s “job” is not to make up extremely serious allegations out of thin air.

Her job is to tell ME she is concerned and have me shove the 1/4 inch of rubber that so alarmed her completely under my eyeglasses case so she can chillax!

@AlexSJ YES I DO have witnesses who are willing to testify that the rubber gun has been there for a while. GOOD POINT.

and YES re diversifying, that was a question my legal aid attorney provided. I gave him a LONG list of all the many places I list, and unfortunately, it really came to 640 or so Air bookings, and 10 all together of maybe a half-dozen other ways of ferreting out guests.

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I have only seen cases of hosts being investigated for racism on here, where there was video, text and/or evidence on Airbnb messaging to back up allegation.

Which case discussed on here are you thinking of, where a host was accused of racism with no evidence and was then shut down?

Not saying in any way that Airbnb can’t and won’t do this. Just don’t remember the case :slight_smile:

Wow @Mexican

I appreciate you have only been a member for a few weeks, and it takes time to get a feel for how a forum works, but your post wasn’t at all helpful, and definitely personal .

I may not always agree with @GutHend - but I think you overstepped the mark here.

@GutHend I do actually think it is interesting to discuss all sides of this case, as it has huge repercussions in terms of hosts and guests leaving reviews on Airbnb, as it is so unusual for a host (or guest) to win a legal challenge against a review.

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I agree, it’s definitely a very interesting case in many ways and I’m very curious how this will all turn out in the end.

AlexSJ found the specific case I was thinking about: Thrown off for absurd violation? . Apparently it wasn’t because of racism, but something about same sex couples (I’m not going to read the whole topic all over :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:). Anyway I remember the case being equally astounding.

Thanks just reminded myself of the case @GutHend.

This was a large scale property developer who said he wanted to cancel because the guest wanted to bring an extra four female guests and he was afraid they would stay over. And the guests (four guys in a two bedroom property) said he wanted to cancel because he was being homophobic.

Unfortunately the property manager had kept his communications about this to phone calls, and had not followed anything up on Airbnb messaging, so there was nothing in writing to back up his side of the story.

Airbnb ruled against the host and closed his listings.

It’s hard to follow up on airbnb extranet. When it’s booked and arrival is same day. They call us and say they wish to do something rediculous. Owners told me to just cancel.

My case is a good reminder to all. That no matter how big you are. If the client makes a outlandish lie. Airbnb might toss you. We have the position now once booked on airbnb never cancel. Make my case funnier that we discriminate. We had a same sex couple ftom airbnb staying that week. Which we had nothing but excellent experience with. So. When you call airbnb or they call you. And they remind you this conversation is being recorded. Remember it’s not for training. It’s to get you.

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Do you have witnesses that you can bring on that if interested Airbnb could have easily found, showing that they just don’t care because they are high and mighty?

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If you mean in the sense of past guests, oh yeah sure!

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Well, if one would try move away from: xxx says so, YYY says this …
What would say a guest saying that stayed at the same time?
Or one shortly before or after?
If you come up with a few, then you can throw that out there: why didn’t Airbnb dig that teeny weeny little bit before closing your account.

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Yep I can try that tact tomorrow if AirBNB a) shows up and b) tries to counter the physical evidence that I will be bringing to the courtroom (the entire toy basket including the training pistol, as well as a small bulletin board covered with thank-you Post-Its from guess).

It’s gone now.

I read this whole thread and watched both of your videos, @PuppyLover. I am so sorry all of this happened to you and I will be following with interest.

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