There are always two sides to a story. It sounds to me like there was an after party at the Airbnb. Regardless of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, a party is a party. To me, a gathering of eight or more is a party. It seems like Airbnb supported the host which makes me believe it was a party! Airbnb normally sides with guests, not hosts.
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I haven’t seen a response, and wouldn’t expect one because I would think that the Host’s best response would be to request that medium take down the story as defamation and an invasion of privacy. Failing that, the Host might contact a lawyer and want any responses crafted by the Host’s attorney.
But accepting, for the moment, the guest’s allegations of facts as true it’s apparent that she exceeded the maximum occupancy – probably by A LOT (see first picture of the wedding party).
And it appears that the group did create noise as the guest’s defense there came just in three parts: 1) didn’t see evidence that anyone else had complained, 2) that other neighbors made noise and 3) that noise laws can be inherently racist.
So, this seems to be a situation where the guest had a party and feels – without any supporting facts – that the Host insistence on its and Airbnb rules had a racist intent.
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That really depends on the make-up of the group and their behavior. Two families who are vacationing together, who might have 2 teenagers each, with grandma and grandpa along, would make a group of 10, but could easily be reasonably quiet people, just doing normal family activities.
And I could envision renting a place with 9 of my friends, none of whom are heavy drinkers, and all we would be doing is preparing meals and eating together, and sitting around talking.
People can have fun together without being noisy or wild or having a party atmosphere.
I just looked at the Host’s listing.
Here was the Host’s response to the review in Airbnb:
This guest has lied about her booking. She booked a rental for 5 guests and did not ask me if she could host a large event for friends and family. We were asked if she could arrive early and leave baggage and possibly food and I said yes. I told her she would just have to wait until the home was fully clean before occupying it. Liane ended up throwing an event for well over 40 guests that I could see from the front door. There could have possibly been many more out of my line of sight. I was surprised to see so many people that were not registered as guests. Cars filled the long driveway and extended in to the busy street and were parked over in to the dirt areas off the road.
I went to the door and spoke with Liane and her husband and said that she could not have a party. I could loose my license as an Air BnB host because of this. Her friend commented that this wouldn’t be a problem in Los Angeles. I said it is a problem here in this residential neighborhood as we have no commercial license and are not zoned to host events. I said, you will be gone and I still may have to deal with the aftermath if neighbors report me for having parties. That isn’t fair to me. I run this home as a business and that could affect my livelihood. (Imagine if everyone did this, it would be so unfair to my neighbors) Her friend commented that this was racist. I take great offense to that comment as I have a mixed family. I would never treat anyone in a racist manner and you can see from the hundreds of guests that I have hosted that this is simply unkind and untrue. I value kindness and making guests feel comfortable. I would want hosts to treat me in this same way while I travel. Discrimination and racism should never be tolerated. Liane is now defaming me on other platforms and threatening me. I have proof of this. Her guests are also writing me via the Air BnB platform and using slanderous words. I have followed the Air BnB protocol of not allowing parties but she seems to think different rules apply to her and is upset that they are what they are. I went out of my way to find Liane a beautiful venue a few blocks away. The restaurant has a gorgeous patio and bar. It is very romantic covered with twinkle lights and white decor in an Italian theme. I went down and arranged for her and her guests to use the whole side area with comfortable seating for free just to keep her happy and be of service to her. She said they would go and promised that they would eat the food her mom just cooked as it was just being served and then head down to the lovely restaurant. Instead, she stayed at the house, continued the party and is defaming me on this and other platforms. I don’t know why Air BnB has allowed her slanderous post to remain when I have evidence of the entire situation.
On another note, The firepit does work well. We also have a clean pool and you can see that from comments by other guests.
Here was the guest’s review in Airbnb:
Our stay with Christamaria was TERRIBLE. In addition to a very racist experience dealing with the host, the house was FULL of cobwebs and spiders, the firepit did not work, and the pool was not clean (even though we paid extra for it to be heated and never used it). But this was the least of our worries.
We had a few guests over to grab dinner and leave and Christamaria flipped out on us! She showed up unannounced and demanded that our guests leave. All of this might have been understandable had it been done differently. She made us feel like animals. Her words and behavior were dehumanizing. We hope that this host is never allowed to host through Airbnb again because she clearly holds some implicit/explicit biases against People of Color. But given the fact that Airbnb has not been responsive to our claims, we doubt anything will come of it. We just hope that this poor review will help others realize they should steer clear of properties managed by Christamaria.
Here is the Host’s review record:
Scanning through this host’s reviews, I see plenty of past guests who are POC, who left reviews saying the house was wonderful, immaculately clean, and that the host was a lovely, kind person with whom communication was great.
This obviously appears to be the typical “got called out for having an unauthorized party so retaliated with lies” scenario.
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I can’t know whether the guest just didn’t know that it would be a problem to have a party or didn’t know what a party was versus a ‘get-together.’
With all the planning that the guest said she’d done over 1.5-2 years, and the guest being a good writer, a Ph.D., an experienced Airbnb guest (11 stays), you’d think she’d know that she couldn’t have a party.
You’d certainly think that she’d read the rules that say maximum occupancy is eight, and so having 40+ guests is very different from her statement in the medium article:
“. . . but I always believed it was acceptable to have people over for a meal or drinks and this was never a problem- until that Sunday.”
Her statement in the Airbnb review seems disingenuous to me:
What’s the expression? Puh-leasssssse!
[Why does she choose to avoid saying ‘40+ friends to ‘grab’ dinner’, or ‘acceptable to have 40 people for a meal or drinks and this was never a problem’? She knows.]
It seems far more likely that in all her planning she calculated that it was far less expensive to cook for 40+ guests at the Airbnb rather than to have the event/party at a restaurant or hotel.
I think she decided it was better to ask for forgiveness later than for permission before.
But perhaps later when she saw the understandable shock from the Host felt that the best defense is a good offense.
Maybe the Host’s demeanor leaked anger that she misinterpreted as racist. The guest emphasizes ‘implicit’ racism in the article, which along with other statements by the guest suggests to me that it ‘wasn’t what the Host said, but how she said it.’
The guest chooses to interpret that ‘how’ as racist, or maybe because of past racist treatment can’t avoid jumping to that conclusion.
But I wonder how I would react if I were at a listing I was Host for and saw 40+ guests just in my line of sight, and cars parked everywhere and along the side of the road. Would anger leak from my demeanor?
Question for Hosts here: What would you have done if you were the Host?
I’d call the police and ask that they be ejected, though I don’t know CA law and how effective that would be. But at the least I’d have a police report.
Hmmm, I’m not sure I should have started this topic. I was more focused on the differing level of expectations, how we need to offer some grace rather than making assumptions, as we don’t know others’ past experiences (whether discrimination as a consumer or damage as a service provider).
How hosts should best manage expectations, rather than “who’s right and who’s wrong.”
I think the tactic of a reminder of the most critical rules in the welcome message was a great suggestion.
If you’ve ever planned a wedding, you know how crazy-making it is and how stressful it can be trying to make sure everything goes well on the day. I can imagine the family dynamics and how the bride lost control of the situation when the mom started cooking! Also got herself in a bit of corner by not taking account of the natural desire of guests who had traveled to gather somewhere after the wedding. Normally they’d be hanging out in the hotel bar or lobby. I did feel for the bride although I disagree with her response.
As a frequent Airbnb guest, I have been guilty in the past of rule violation by thoughtlessly inviting a family member in for a drink or chat or whatever, say before we all go out to dinner. It just seems natural if you have rented an entire house. I have to keep in mind to check with the host.
Yes, this is a scheduled message 30 minutes following every booking. [I make it 30 minutes so if I see it I can edit it.]. That confirmation message makes it very hard if not impossible for a guest to say that they ‘didn’t see the rule’.
But I’m assuming you didn’t invite 40+ family members over for a drink or chat without asking.
Our guests do ask us if they can have someone over. We always begin our response with 'Thank you for asking . . ." We almost always say ‘yes’ but when the requests are ambiguous (‘just a few few friends,’ ‘a few friends of our children and their parents’ etc) we ask for the total count they’re requesting; we nicely insist on a number before agreeing, of course all on the platform. Often the ambiguous request ends. Bullet dodged.
We do this because in the past we had permitted ‘a few friends’ over, and the total count turned out to be 15-20, and damage occurred, especially with children who think it’s fun to hang on drapery rods, walk on walls, sit on top of outside light fixtures, on and on.
Our sense is that the guest just cannot keep tabs on a group that large, the property is not designed for it (so the visitors might not be entirely happy with the place), and these visitors don’t know about the house rules, feel no respect for it, there is more wear and tear with a larger group (at least potentially), the probability for more accidents, some of which we might not discover right away, and a greater chance for injuries.
To these guests’ credit I read of no allegation of damage.
I’d say having a family member or a friend over for a drink is in a completely different category from having 40 people over with cars parked all down the street. Sure, people can make assumptions about something not being a big deal, but booking for 5 at a place with a max guest count of 8 and having 40 people over?
I would imagine if she had simply asked the host if she could have half a dozen extra people over for a meal, the host may very well have said yes. She had already let them drop off luggage and food hours before check-in time, and told them they could finish their meal if the extras left afterwards, so she sounds like she tries to be accommodating.
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This is potentially an example of one of those fuzzy requests.
If the Host responds back to say, ‘So you’re asking for six more people, so the total count would be 11 people at the property, whether inside or outside, and just for lunch, right?’ I wouldn’t be surprised to hear back that ‘It could be a few more but about that number.’
But as the Host asks more how large that ‘about number’ could grow, the request typically stops. I think it stops because the guest is thinking it asked for one half-dozen, but if just one more half-dozen showed up, it ‘sounds’ or they feel it can be made to sound like not a big deal. The follow-up question by the Host lets them know that the Host is on to the game.
It’s six more people, not just one more half-dozen.
Sure, people can take advantage of a host being willing to break the normal rules. Some will but some won’t.
I’d imagine a lot of hosts would tend to try to be accommodating to what seems like a reasonable request until they get taken advantage of.
Yes.
One of the advantages of this forum is that a Host doesn’t have to be taken advantage of themselves.
They can read here what other guests have done and think through their procedures without having suffered the knocks of the bad experience themselves.
I wonder how Hosts here, especially ones still employed, how they would feel if a guest lambasted them not just in an Airbnb review but in an online article, and particularly called out their listing and the Host publicly.
Would it make sense to have a rule that says:
Confidentiality: Guests agree not to post, directly or indirectly, any reviews, information, comments elsewhere than on the Airbnb platform related to their stay or about Hosts, nor post anything on the internet regarding the property, their stay, the Hosts or interactions with Airbnb in any way related to the reservation or stay. [This could be edited to be more succinct.]
This is true, but we all host differently, have different types of listings, different comfort zones, as well as attracting different demographics of guests.
As a homeshare host, I have always shared my kitchen with guests and all my guests have cleaned up after themselves, never helped themselves to my food, nor broken or wrecked anything.
I’ve read plenty of homeshare hosts complaining about those things, having experiences which led them to either only allow kitchen use for light meals, like making a sandwich, or kibosh kitchen use altogether.
So while I’ve learned a lot through reading other hosts’ experiences, they aren’t necessarily applicable to me.
Agreed.
We each have our own styles of communicating, our own market niche, different offerings.
So we need to filter to decide what if anything might be applicable to ourselves.
In many situations we might choose just to ‘hold the thought’ that the approach we read about might be applicable to us and decide over time whether and how we refine our approach.
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Here’s an interesting link on medium by Jackson Cunningham where the guest was banned for leaving an off-site Airbnb review. The story itself is amazing.
Here’s another story from medium, not quite relating to the original post in the sense of a guest complaining (and complaining off-site). This guest’s father died in an Airbnb when a rope swing on a tree broke. So in a way it relates, in the sense of a guest’s expectations for safety. Here’s the link.
FYI: You can read only so many of these medium stories before they ask you to upgrade. I couldn’t finish the last story as I have not upgraded.
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The host in that first story sounds like they shouldn’t be doing short term rentals on Airbnb at all, if guests have to vacate the premises during the stay they booked for several hours a day and never really unpack. Seems like a host whose trying to wring every penny possible out of a room.
And the host and guest are giving 2 different stories. Host claims vacating for certain hours is clear in the ad, guest says they were only informed after booking.
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