Depressing New York City Hosts Meeting

Luckily I have family there, so will be fine :slight_smile:

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It’s been a year or more since I posted here, but coming back in because this is very important. I couldn’t make the meeting noted here, but I was at the meeting earlier, the Meetup hosted by Michael McKay. I can’t remember the last name of the lawyer that spoke - Ken something? What he said, and BigAppleMan is also saying is that there is NO SUCH THING as a legal listing in New York City. The laws are so poorly written that even if you deem yourself to be legal, the city enforcers can deem you to be illegal, and they are the only ones that matter. The lawyer told us that the EDC (the entity enforcing) basically does not even have to abide by the constitution - they are totally autonomous to do as they want. So the only way to make change is to have any cases heard by a higher court. That was the very scary thing that we all left the meeting - hosts who thought they were legal are not - nobody is safe in NYC. Every single person who hosts any kind of listing runs the risk of fines, being shut down.

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You had me up until that sentence. I’m pretty sure the Economic Development Corp does not enforce the Multiple Dwelling housing laws and I am confident they don’t operate outside of the constitution.

@superhostnyc, aren’t your properties in New Jersey?

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Yes, my properties are in NJ but I’m still interested in what goes on across the river, and I have a lot of friends in NYC that I want to support. I’m pretty certain that it was EDC but it’s definitely not the Economic Development Corp, something to do with the environment. In any case, the meet up was recorded on video and will be posted at some point in case anyone is interested in the information that the lawyer shared.

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I posted about this a few weeks ago.

shrug

I can’t compete with the hotel lobby, so if they’re truly coming after hosts renting a room in their private homes, I’m out.

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Happening here too.

ABB started with a few guys renting air mattress space during an event in town. At least that’s my knowledge.

Now we, (and many I work with) are truly innkeepers of sorts. No impact just opening our doors partly for the enjoyment and partly for the extra income.

Hardly a crime.

But suddenly we have folks renting or buying blocks of housing and renting to whoever. Just pointing out the “Spectrum” of types of STR’s.

Most have zero impact but yes some are becoming disruptive to neighbourhoods.

In every situation this happens and it ruins a good thing for the rest of us. It’s no wonder authorities are compelled to regulate.

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Thanks for the tag Kona… I wouldn’t have seen it without it.

The thing that makes me wonder about all this - and I don’t question what happened to the OP… and I’ve heard similar stories from other New York hosts. But, you’d think if this crack down was really having any widespread effect - that those of us just on the other side of the river from NYC in NJ - would be getting tons of requests right now.

But, everything is perfectly normal - maybe even a little slower than normal. We’re getting maybe just a little bit less traffic than we normally do at this time of year.

So apparently, whatever they’re doing - it doesn’t seem to have had much of a broad effect.

It’s hard to imagine these inspectors, however good they are, really being able to take down a lot of listings. The only way they could really do it is if they got massive publicity every time they did. But I’m not seeing much about it in the local media at all.

And why is it Airbnb still has this page up https://www.airbnb.com/stay/New_York - if they know it’s ILLEGAL for hosts in NYC?

I just don’t get it. It’s starting to sound like Uber - where it’s illegal but the company hopes you’ll keep doing it anyway.

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@JonYork…we are just nearing the end of the “slow-ish” season in New York. That may account for the “slower than normal”.

And has been mentioned countless times, for every host who “leaves” Airbnb, voluntarily or not, there are 10 others to fill the void.

Why does Airbnb still have that page you referred to up? Easy. MONEY! And do they stand with the owners once they are fined? NO. They just move on to the next “new” host.

But the main point here is that the Office of Special Enforcement (OSE) is hunting down the whole apartment listings (and even rooms for rent where the owner isn’t there are all the time), one by one. I’m telling you, at this meeting I attended, there were at least a dozen people who had the horror stories of being accosted , and severely fined, by these agents. It is happening; as the attorney that spoke said, “you have either received a summons, or you are going to”.

It’s ominous.

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Wow. Honestly it angers me so much that these politicians who supposedly care so much about the people - especially the poor and women and minorities… are the first to attack those very same groups when it benefits them politically and financially.

There are a ton of single moms raising families who rely on Airbnb to make ends meet. There are a ton of minority people who run Airbnbs - and I’m sure for the same reason - to help make ends meet. To help make their rent payments or their mortgage payments. Without Airbnb these people, who are in the very groups politicians purport to love and support, are going to be hurt the most. I’m in the same boat with them, although not an ethnic minority.

These politicians are such a bunch of hypocrites.

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So, check out these two contradictory articles. One biased against Air - and the other isn’t even talking about Air.

The first one - a study of Airbnb’s effects on NYC. It’s dropped in passing somewhere in the middle of the article that this “researcher” was funded by the HOTEL industry! But they made it sound like it was of no consequence.

Anyway, this guy concludes that Airbnb has made NYC rents skyrocket by 1.2% in the last three years. (Which is 4 tenths of 1% each year - which equals about $8 a month on a $2,000 monthly rental).

Hardly catastrophic!

This guy also claims that Airbnb is responsible for the horrible evil of removing 5,600 rental units off the long-term market. Which when I read that I thought - that’s nothing - it’s a drop in the bucket… 5,600! Come on.

Then, this article in Curbed NY - a site that focuses on real estate - says New York City housing could actually be getting cheaper!

It also mentions that there are a total of around 3.5 MILLION rental units in New York City.

So, 5,600 units have been taken out of a market of 3.5 million. That’s 1.6 TENTHS of ONE PERCENT of the total units. You would have to take 6.2 times more than that off the market to equal 1%.

The bottom line is - Airbnb has had NO NOTICEABLE EFFECT whatsoever on the New York LTR market. This is all ginned up by the hotel lobby to protect their profits.

And I agree completely with the person who said earlier that Air is bringing in people who wouldn’t and couldn’t stay in hotels. I would say 90% of our guests use Air because they couldn’t even afford a New York hotel. Before Air - New York hotels averaged $400 a NIGHT. Now they’re down to around $200.

But the people coming with Air are people who simply wouldn’t have been able to come without Air. Air is bringing in a whole new market. - and it’s costing the hotel industry precious little.

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Nice finds…and nice analysis!

It’s all about the Hotel industry, their money, their power, their organization, Who can compete?

Oh yeah, maybe a $30 billion dollar company like Airbnb. Without hosts they, are,literally, worthless.

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I am traveling to NYC this fall and am afraid to book an AirBNB for fear of it not being available for me by the fall, loosing my money - or worse getting kicked out in the middle of the night.
Is there any way to book and feel safe in NYC?
JudyA

@JudyA, there are nearly 50,000 Airbnb listings in New York City. The likelihood of you " losing my money - or worse getting kicked out in the middle of the night." is tiny. You would never lose your money, as Airbnb would refund if they shut the listing down. Further, getting kicked out during your stay is possible, but nearly as likely if you booked a hotel and there was a flood in your room. Very unlikely,and, again, Airbnb would step in to help.

While there are no guarantees, avoiding an Airbnb listing in New York, or anywhere that Airbnb is in turmoil, just doesn’t make sense.

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I’m a NYC host in my own single family home and you will be safe if you stay here or with Alia. There are legal listings not in multiple dwelling buildings. See if you can find one like that. If you pm me I’ll try to help you.

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If it is illegal in NYC to rent for less than 30 days, how do you know that AirBNB will step in ? Is this policy in writing somewhere?

I am in need of a two bedroom listing - with room for two couples to share. One bathroom is OK, if you know of someone and can direct me to that listing, I would be happy to look into it.
Thank you

Three years ago I couldn’t find a listing like that in Manhattan, or close in Brooklyn, Bronx or Queens. Places are small and expensive there. After I inquired about a place and they declined me after I waited 23 hours for an answer I went with a hotel room.

@JudyA, I am certain Airbnb would assist if this occurred. Why? Because they already know that with the current NYC law, thousands of the listings that appear on their website are illegal. If they didn’t stand up with the guests, they’d lose millions of dollars. That’s not their business model.

They will give the canceled on guest a voucher and say good luck finding a new place. They are not extremely helpful in this situation. We have listings in two places with very strict regulation and get canceled on guests booking our place frequently. They are never ‘happy’ with how ABB handled the situation, and are only rebooking bc now they have a voucher to burn.

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@azreala, I have had Airbnb relocate several separate guests to my place after some incident (such as host cancelled reservation, or no heat or hot water, etc.). I believe they attempt to relocate the guest (that way they keep a reservation), and as a last resort, would issue a voucher.