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I have a beautiful 18 acre peninsula in Michigan I’m planning to build a small cottage on next year. It’s going to be 1 bedroom with king bed and a small loft with 2 twin mattress. (4 guest max?)
Couple things I’m trying do decide on before building. First is what type of water heater. I keep hearing about guest taking insanely long hot showers. I fear that if I go with a tankless and the hot water never runs out guest will never get out the shower and in addition to the utility bill being high my septic with get overloaded? Thoughts on tankless vs regular water heater?
My next question is what experience owners of lake properties have with winter usage. Is it worth it to keep my quarter mile long driveway plowed and heat going or should I plan on winterizing?
Any other general advice on build to suit vacation rental needs is appreciated.
A tankless water heater will be less expensive because your biggest cost is when you’re using it, while you’re always paying for a storage tank water heater.
My intuition is that people who take long showers take long showers. I don’t think that on a short term rental they’re going to change their habits.
On your question of winter use, I would look at your marketplace. You can see on Airbnb and VRBO what the rentals are IN YOUR AREA. I assume [?] you’ve done that to help shape your decision on the size of the place and the amenities and the business opportunity in that location.
I’d encourage you to have a detailed spreadsheet with various scenarios.
I am wondering whether this is 100% a business investment or whether this is a retirement/vacation home for you and any rentals will defray the costs.
As you are building from scratch, as far as too much water going into your septic, if possible, route your grey water out into your gardens, to trees that need water, etc.
Re hot water, I only host one guest at a time in my private room listing and I have a regular hot water tank but it’s small. Guests won’t get hot water for more than 10 minutes max before it runs out, so a half hour shower simply isn’t possible Not sure how you can provide hot water for 4 like that, though. I’d do some research on how much energy a tankless would use compared to a regular water heater. Water heaters in Mexico where I live are almost all propane, and those who have switched to tankless say it has definitely saved them money, and that would be the same for electric ones, but those aren’t people who are hosting.
Tankless heaters do require some regular maintenance that regular water heaters don’t.
Three thoughts: I used to be on an HOA board and we had many water damage claims when the tank water heaters eventually ‘died’ and spilled the water faster than the pipes could drain them. The HOA strongly recommended to replace the water heaters every ten years.
A tankless water heater is nice. You get all the water you need; don’t need to wait after someone takes a bath for hot water. Look into a sump pump hot water heater.
I also wonder how this fits in with how you’ll heat the house. We have a combination of hydronic and radiant: it’s quiet and very comfortable (plus floors are warm). We have a boiler that heats water for water use and for the heating. Again, whether this is purely a business decision or in part a personal decision (because you might use it) will play a role in your decision.
My place is in Ontario, @DanB. Treehouse camping listing, much more primitive than your cottage will be, and I was booked solid every winter. Calendar is blocked at the moment, but still people are writing asking whether it is “really booked” and can they come.
So I would say yes to offering it in the winter if you can deal with the snow removal and keeping water lines, etc., from freezing. There is potential for it to do well.
We LOVE our tankless water heaters and we have one in our rental cottage. No, guests do not abuse the hot water not running out—I have no evidence of that whatsoever.
But what’s great is, the water heater does not use any natural gas at all (you can also get electric and probably should) when the place is vacant, and of course whenever the hot water is not in use. You can even turn it off and save the few cents of electricity it takes to keep it on standby if you want.
This is so much safer and I’m sure more than offsets any guest who might take a long shower. The other nice thing is you can shower, run a load a laundry, and have somebody washing dishes or a dishwasher going all at once, and no problem with hot water.
The brand to get is Navien and get an expert to put it in. Instant hot water is an option with these but I wouldn’t get it for a rental unless saving water is super important in your location. The pump runs every hour, using electricity, and makes a running water sound. We live in a long ranch so we did opt for instant hot.
Thank you for the replies everyone. I specifically am more concerned about my septic system being overloaded as I have read on here that others had this problem. But it doesn’t sound too common. I am leaning towards electric tankless.
The other vacation rentals near by have reduced rates and wide open availability for the winter months. I’m thinking it’s probably not worth it to keep mine heated and plowed as its gonna be electric heat and the cost of plowing that super long driveway is gonna be crazy.
On overloading the septic system I would think that the contractor can run through what the peak water discharge might be for four people, and then add some worse-case cushion assuming that guests are unfamiliar with septic and unlikely to read/follow instructions. I don’t know how much more expensive it is to get that bigger septic tank and whether the incremental expense is mostly limited to the tank. [If it’s mostly the cost of the tank, it just doesn’t seem very expensive to get a bigger tank.]
Getting high efficiency front-load washer and dishwasher will help too.
The gas vs electric tankless water heater is a challenging decision. The Consumer Reports article cited above showed significantly greater operating costs for the electric heater because electricity costs are (now) typically much higher than gas costs. Of course, that can change.
SO electric tankless heaters seem more eco-friendly and perhaps somewhat safer. But more expensive to operate. Gas prices are generally expected to be 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of other fuels through 2050. [Department of Energy] Of course long-term projections like that are uncertain especially with the Ukraine war and Europe’s need for gas. I don’t know whether you’re considering solar panels as that would affect your decision too.
Natural gas is pretty much always cheaper than electric when it comes to heating. Most electricity is generated by burning natural gas. But unfortunately it’s not an option in rural areas. My options are only electric and propane. Propane prices vary wildly and are always higher than natural gas so I’m not sure there’s as much savings vs electric. If I’m not using the place in the winter then paying thousands to have a big ugly propane pig taking up water front real estate isn’t worth it.
If you read the article, the “leakage” is on account of leaky fittings. There is nothing inevitable about leaky gas fittings- all connections need to be tested to make sure theyare tight.
Right, I wouldn’t want propane if I could avoid it.
I was doing some reading on septic systems and one article recommended having hair filters on most drains, a lint filter for the clothes washer. Since you’re building from scratch I think you have lots of opportunity to avoid problems in the future.
One of the comments made was that the use of garbage disposals puts strain on septic systems, and they encouraged composting. Just an FYI.
What I don’t know is how many of those fittings/couplings are there, and how easily are they reachable. I don’t know also whether there are other sources of leaks.
When you read about the installation of a gas tankless water heater the Consumer Reports article made it clear that the installation was much more complicated. Of course, we’ll all say to get a qualified installer. But that’s really easier said than done.
I have a propane stove and a propane hot water heater. I know where all the connections are and they are easy to access. I change out the 1 mtr long hose to the stove every few years. Andit isn’t hard to check for leaks- you pour a little soapy water over them and if it is leaking, it will bubble.
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Both tankless and traditional hot water heaters have the potential for problems as the units age. We will be replacing our 10yo regular hot water heater with a tankless unit this spring.
Water is the least of your worries as it relates to septic tanks. Wipes (there is no such thing as flushable wipes), condoms and feminine products followed by garbage disposals are the main offenders.
It costs me $120 each plow for two small parking areas with short driveways. I would imagine a 1/4 mile drive would be multiples of that.
We installed a top of the line Rinnai water heater last year, & I hate it! Three plumbers have not been able to figure out the bugs, & we’ve had multiple conversations w/ tech support to no avail. Yes, our utility bill went down considerably (old one was electric & new one gas), but the cold to scalding hot showers are quite maddening. Seriously thinking about going back to a tank…
Beautiful property you have! As to your question about winterizing, are there other STRs in the area, & what’s their occupancy? If the area offers winter activities, you should do alright, assuming the area isn’t saturated.
I have never had a tankless water heater, but one thing I have heard regarding them is that they need to be close to the appliances they are fueling. They don’t work well over long distances.
Ultimately I have decided to got with a tanked electric with heat pump. From what I’ve read they are close to tankless in efficiency. The tankless electric WH draw an insane amount of electricity at a time, they are a fire hazard and would require a 400amp service on my cottage.
Not sure how you can provide hot water for 4 like that, though. I’d do some research on how much energy a tankless would use compared to a regular water heater. Water heaters in Mexico where I live are almost all propane, and those who have switched to tankless say it has definitely saved them money, and that would be the same for electric ones, but those aren’t people who are hosting.
