This forum is dedicated to connecting hosts with other hosts. Sign up to get the latest updates and news just for AirBnb hosts! Note that we are not affiliated with Airbnb - we are just passionate hosts!
This story is very disturbing. Amazon owns Ring. Amazon provides a few Ring products in return. Police are able to ask camera owners for surveillance footage without a search warrant.
The agreement gives the Lakeland Police Department access to Ring’s “Law Enforcement Neighborhood Portal.” This portal is an interactive map that shows police all of the active Ring doorbell cameras in their town. The exact addresses of the doorbell cameras are hidden. Police can use the portal to directly interact with Ring doorbell camera owners and informally request footage for investigations, without a warrant.
I’m homebrewing a secure home security system that won’t have to call anywhere because there is no way I will expose my cameras or alarms to any other party without a search warrant. I don’t want any system that will call a mothership.
So I dont know if you read just a snippet of an article or just posted part. The deal was the the residents in that neighborhood would get the free cameras if they agreed to let police do an informal request for info when needed. It isn’t as if rights were being taken or invaded without knowledge.
Police can use the portal to directly interact with Ring doorbell camera owners and informally request footage for investigations, without a warrant.
Right off the bat, this is sketchy. If you refuse, they get a warrant. So much for your private use of your own property.
#2 – PLEASE READ WHAT I WRITE HERE: Educate yourselves to never, ever, ever, ever, EVER get involved with the police if you can humanly help it. Don’t talk to them, don’t “try to help,” don’t volunteer your cameras. Even as a Ring owner who wants to “keep your neighborhood safe,” or whatever.
To learn more, please watch this video to learn of the risks to yourself. It’s all downside, no upside. This video is one of many by lawyers that should open your eyes.
That’s exactly what is going on, so Amazon/Ring can make da big $$$$.
Do the PDs and Amazon disclose that this can be used against you and violate your due process rights?
From the article:
Andrew Ferguson, a professor at the University of the District of Columbia School of Law, said in a phone call that products like Ring can remove typical due process. Typically, police have to get a warrant from a judge before collecting digital evidence. Ring’s Law Enforcement Neighborhood Portal, given to police for free as a part of the agreement, lets police request footage directly from Ring owners.
“What people fundamentally misunderstand is that self-surveillance is potentially a form of government surveillance,” Ferguson said. “Because the information that you are collecting—you think to augment and improve your life—is one step away from being obtained by law enforcement to completely upend your life.”
Here’s a for instance:
Hi Miss Swan, would you mind allowing us access to your Ring recordings? We just want to check for someone breaking into cars in your neighborhood.
Turns out the popo see you breaking one of the 20 million laws we have that make every citizen a potential felon. Oops! Now YOU are charged.
On top of that, police are constitutionally allowed to lie to about what their investigation is about, could be you, and some petty misdemeanor, NO YOU didn’t give permission to give those rights away, but hey, they’re gone.
I get what you’re saying but… when the residents take these “free” ones they are agreeing to the terms. And even if you dont have one if these- police could ask and/or get a warrant for your camera if needed to investigate a crime.
Fwiw: After Occupy Wall Street, the NY state government (and possibly others, I was focussed locally) created a new law that 5 misdemeanors equals a felony.
Getting arrested at a protest is usually just a misdemeanor.
But now, you participate in 5 sit ins and you’re a felon: you can’t vote, you can’t get a job- oh and yeah, that means you’re relying on Obamacare to pay for the broken bones the police caused when they arrested you. (During Occupy, the only window that was broken was when a cop threw a street medic headfirst into a window. I saw the video, I knew the medic, I met him again afterwards when he was bandaged.)
I’m hearing that they’re talking about claiming “Antifa” is a terrorist organization.
The patriot act allows them to arrest and hold “terrorists” without trial.
Antifa doesn’t have party membership lists, there’s no way to prove you aren’t antifa.
“Antifa” means “antifascist” … Mussolini, Hitler’s ally, created fascism as it’s understood today.
So yeah, I’m anti fascist. So is Captain America.
If I had a Ring, and held a group poster making session before a protest against Trump (cough, for instance), everyone who came could be called Antifa and we could all be disappeared.
I don’t mean to be alarmist but this is all fucking alarming.
So what are your thoughts on cameras within and on the outside of a corner store being used to follow and identify criminals? I’m just curious. Police can request ANYONES camera footage. You can deny it until a warrant is issued and presented. It has to be within a certain scope and they cant just be willy Nilly. I personally do not have these types of cameras. This is the inherent risk of having these types of surveillance. I very honestly dont see anything wrong with the idea unless they are going outside of the scope and purview of any warranted investigation into a particular crime/ criminal. If they just happen to see someone committing a felony while looking at footage for another case… then I cant say much about that either. The prosecutors would need judges permission to use it in another case. They dont generally just approve that stuff because it would be spying / surveillance without warrant. Similar to speed cameras- you have the right to face your accuser and you cant face a camera in court.
Well, I do, but only through my neighborhood watch program. And it’s a little different when it’s a small town where you grew up and where you know all the cops.
@Alia_Gee you are right, and the rightwing states that have been passing unconstitutional anti-demonstration laws need to be sued. I also am politically active and believe in exercising my First Amendment rights every day.
I’m a retired IT guy who understands computer security. When this summer season ends, I’ll be purchasing a Raspberry Pi computer and adding shareware Home Assistant software to create a smart home hub that never calls outside my network, never shares any files outside my network, and does not allow remote logins except by a VPN encrypted connection, and then only from specified devices. It will run alarms, cameras, and heating/cooling.
Amazon, Apple, Samsung, and other vendors all have smart home hubs that have to check in to their mothership, and can share or store data on the manufacturer’s system. Nope. Not in my house.
My thought is, it’s time for you (or anyone dealing with this daily, as I do) to move to a high-trust area vs. one full of lowlifes.
(I can say this because I live in the most violent city in the U.S. of A., and VAST NUMBERS of people, not just a few here, a few there, are hitchin’ up their wagons and getting out.)
I dont live in a bad area. I actually live & host in a very small town with little crime. But that wasnt my question. And I am genuinely curious as to your answer. Are you ok with a corner store turning over footage to find/track criminals as part of an investigation? I am of the mind that people who commit crimes should be caught… If a hypothetical camera on my property caught me committing a felony during the course of an unrelated investigation- I deserve to be charged. No agreement between Ring & Police can supercede your constitutional rights. I honestly dont understand the uproar that this is causing.
There is and always will be bad actors- whether its criminals or maybe a crooked cop. Thanks @Chloe for the link. Definitely written to seem less insidious than the others I’ve seen. It does state- again- that the users control what is uploaded- or if they even share the video content- to the neighbors app. I get the idea of people basically voluntarily offering to surveil themselves with this… I do. Maybe it’s just because I am, in general, not one to commit crimes… and I wouldnt likely share info without a warrant… but again- I dont see why there is such concern when there are very dangerous areas looking for ways to make themselves safer.
As noted above, and I will repeat, our “laws” are so convoluted, overdone and ridiculous, far outside what the Framers envisioned, that you would likely NOT deserve to be “charged” for innumerable goofball “felonies” that your camera might show.
P.S. You ever heard of prosecutors “overcharging” and/or making up charges??? 'Coz that is another risk here.
I wish you were correct, but unfortunately, you are not. In fact, your very contract with Airbnb gives away your Constitutional rights to due process (sections 15 and 17), unless you are in the European Union.
