Advice needed: Kitchen with dining table/chairs or lounge area?

Hi, been reading t he forum a long time and have learnt many valuable lessons and tips here, before starting our own STR. We are located in Europe/Spain, with a large house that we are converting a part of into a fully separate unit for STR. Lovely views, lots of sunlight, huge terracce, brilliant location, lovely garden with pool and orange trees. 5 bedrooms with flatscreen TVs, 2 full bathrooms + extra toilet. Max 7 or 8 guests in the unit. Will most likely be popular.

We are having discussions about kitchen and/or living room. We have only one room to use for that and cannot fit all.

The large room where the kitchen will be has a door to the large terrace, overlooking the valley and the Mediterranean. The terrace will have both small tables and chairs and a large, comfy sofalounge. In the summer, our guests will (according to research) be families on vacation, either large families or two families renting together. Winter it will be families, but also groups (hikers, bikers, climbers, other groups).

The kitchen is not big enough to facilitate a kitchen both with dining table and living room furniture (sofas etc). So we have to choose between a kitchen with

a) normal dining table with chairs or
b) sofas with coffee table and chairs.

Obviously what cannot fit indoors will be placed outdoors on the terrace (weather proof, of course). I am thinking kitchen with dining table and my partner wants sofas/lounge in the kitchen. We’ve gone many rounds on this and cannot agree.

We’d really appreciate any quick advice on this. Thank you in advance.

If possible, a floor plan would help tremendously for us to play through different options. Despite all the information you provide, we cannot understand which way windows and doors are facing etc. which does make a difference in planning the layout.

Your place sounds lovely and I was wondering how you will be targeting families in particular? They would seem to be a good quality of guests (in general) but I was instantly asking myself what would “prevent” young adults book the place (3 to 4 couples) for some good time in Spain - ESPECIALLY with a pool!!!

Your location may also play a role in this of course. This doesn’t mean that you have to expect bad guests - just wondering how you will target the families. Feel free to let us know how you will be addressing this matter.

My two cents for the time being: I’d prefer a kitchen with dinning table to properly eat since there will be plenty of options to hang out on the terrace. In case of bad/cold weather it may not be very practical to have folks eat “outside”. Depending on how “weather proof” you are going to make it.

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Sofas and living room chairs in the kitchen? For a place marketing to families and groups of 7-8? They will end up covered in food stains and impregnated with cooking odors.

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Is a breakfast bar with high stools an option?

Muddy makes a great point about families and their (unintentional) wear and tear on soft furnishings.

As Hosterer says, some dimensions or a floorplan would be great.

I think that it largely depends on your weather. I can mostly live outside if the weather is warm and sunny and I imagine other people are the same. I recently stayed at a place that had a huge dining table on the terrace (the lounge area was inside) which served so many purposes. That would be perfect for me but not suit everyone.

Your location can be an importance factor too - are you close to restaurants/ cafes etc? If so your guests may be less likely to eat in and so this can affect your decision.

Whatever you choose to do, bear in mind that if your max occupancy is eight people, you should provide dining table/chairs to seat eight people. Same with the seating for lounging/watching TV.

Two and a half bathrooms seems a bit inadequate to me for eight people but maybe I’ve been in the US too long. :slight_smile:

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Whether the number of bathrooms is adequate for a max guest count is somewhat dependent on the demographic of the guest group. If it’s 2 families vacationing together, so four adults and 4 kids, 2 and a half bathrooms would likely be fine. Kids, unless they are teenagers, don’t really spend much time in the bathroom and usually have to be instructed and coerced to bathe and brush their teeth :wink:. If it’s 8 adults, 2 and a half bathrooms might be pushing it, but as you say, the modern American expectations for number of bathrooms per persons is not generally what people in other countries, even developed nations, expect. Even couples in the US and Canada now seem to think they each need their own bathroom sink in their shared bathroom.

More important than the number of bathrooms when deciding on max occupancy, IMO, is whether the size of the hot water tank and the capability of a septic system, if private, can handle that number of people. Hosts can get reviews complaining that there wasn’t consistent hot water if they have a group size that means it will take 15 minutes for the water to get hot enough again for the next people to shower.

Of course, reasonable adults should realize that unless the host has an on-demand hot water system, most home hot water tanks are not going to be sufficient for 8 people to all enjoy a 15 minute hot shower in a half hour period before going out for dinner, but we know that not all guests are reasonable in their expectations and some like to find reasons to demand discounts.

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YES!

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Any chance you could convert a bedroom to a living room?

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Now that sounds like a genius idea. 4 bedrooms is already a big house that could accommodate up to 8 guests. The 5th bedroom furnished as a living room would solve the either/or dilemma.

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It could be a real multi-purpose room. Watching TV, gaming for the kids, listening to music, checking the world on the laptop, board games, reading room (supply some books, guests will leave more), workstation …

That would be great for adult groups and for families too.

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If you can absolutely guarantee the weather will be supportive of your place and guests then the outside area can be factored into your space for dining and lounging, otherwise it can only really be considered bonus space and the inside needs to meet all purposes.

As a guest, I find not having enough proper dining space for the number of guests really irritating, and equally if there is not enough comfy seating for everyone together. Whatever the quality, I would never consider reviewing a place like that very highly because it feels that living space is sacrificed for bedrooms just to cram more people in.

If you are catering truly to families, you absolutely need full kitchen with dining space and also an equal amount of comfy space, ideally in another room. Guests with children tend to spend much more time in the property than vacationing adults.

I like the others’ suggestions of turning one of the potential bedrooms into a snug, comfy space, games room. I think that would really serve your space and potential guests better. You could always include a sofa bed option in there if you felt you needed to be able to offer more sleeping space options.

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Hi everyone, thank you for brilliant constructive feedback. Much appreciated. Sorry for the late response. I’ll try to answer here:

Before embarking on this, I did a lot of research, both online (Pricelabs, AirDNA, forums) and local research, including talking to two local very successful businesses that are absolutely packed every winter with groups. The area is very popular with bikers, hikers, climbers and other groups, and having a property that can host five adults in separate bedrooms will be an advantage and is sought after. We are situated in the prime area for these customers for all the winter. So for these groups in the winter, five adults will be the normal maximum capacity, every guest in their own bedroom. For 5 adults, 2.5 bathrooms should suffice. I hope. Someone will always complain, but that’s a different thing.

For the summer, the area is flooded with North European families looking for summer, warmth and sun. They desire separate bedrooms for the kids, at least for kids older that 11-12. So we can easily accomodate a family with up to four or five kids. Or two smaller families staying together (although I am a little more reluctant about that… but that’s a separate discussion)

The floor layout has already been decided, unfortunately, so changing a bedroom into a lounge is not going to happen at this point. Based on previously mentioned market research. We can change it in the future, if the need for a lounge surpasses the need for the extra bedroom. But we think that for the winter groups, the number of bedrooms is more important. These folks are out all day, come back in the evening for a shower and a siesta, and go out at 8-9PM for dinner, and comes back 11PM to sleep, and are out again early the next morning. In the summer, our guests will stay outdoors all day, sun or shade, garden or beach, and all meals taken at home will be eaten outside on the terracce. Most likely dinner at a restaurant.

Lounge furniture in the kitchen - as has been pointed out in the thread, is a bad idea, and that has been one of my main arguments against this. Also, having a lounge with comfortable chairs for up to six people needs a lot of space, as has been pointed out. For the summer I think a lounge indoors will not be used at all, since everyone will be outside. In the winter, our customers must be able to have their breakfast indoors in a comfortable temperature, as the nights and mornings can feel cold. Well, relatively speaking. But still too cold and humid to sit outside until the sun starts to take at 10-11 AM, IMO. Even in April.

We have a number of cafés and restaurants within a few hundred metres. Many take most large meals out, and have breakfast and light snacks at home.

About the hot water: We are having two large heat pump driven water heaters (580 liters) installed, so hot water should not be a problem. And as soon as we can, the heaters will be fed by preheated water from solar, cutting the electricity bill even further and increasing the capacity by an additional 30% at least.

Even though I haven’t addressed everything in this reply, we have taken everything into consideration and had a long and good talk. The decision is ultimately mine, and we will go for a kitchen with a proper dining table and chairs, and make it really comfortable and inviting. Should the need for a lounge prove to be necessary, perhaps for the summer season, we can accomodate that in the future, based on guest feedback. Thank you all for very valuable input.

(A little background information: I am from Northern Europe, where the living room has been dying for the last 15 years. Whenever we gather friends for dinner or just drinks, we always sit in the kitchen around the dining table all night, never the lounge. Hardly any families watch TV together anymore, everyone has their own device. If guests are having game night or quizes, which I doubt they will TBH, the dining table will be perfect. Also for the groups. IMO.

My partner is from Latin America, where families are different than Northern Europe, and the TV and the living room is what brings everyone together. So I think this was in a few ways a cultural discussion on our part.)

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Is there some statistical data behind that statement? I see no correlation between guests with children and adults regarding the time they spend inside the accommodation. Maybe this is based on your personal experience or perception.

For what it’s worth I could claim the opposite when considering the guests we had BUT that also has something to do what type of accommodation we’re talking about here.

As an extreme example if a host offers a private island it’s obviously clear that guests will spend time “inside” accommodation as there is nowhere else to go.

We on the other hand offer relatively small accommodations that are intended as a starting point for excursions and day trips. In most cases the guests leave early in the morning and return late at nights to have a shower and go to bed - regardless whether there are kids involved or not.

It’s a guest profile issue, I’d say. I (or we) use Airbnb in order to find last minute accommodations whenever we need it (funeral, family gathering or business related). In all those cases, we have no significant requirement of ample dining/cooking/lounging space as all we need is a place to crash. Most of the time we’re out anyways.

Clearly, other guest profiles, who are looking for an Airbnb with A POOL (!) most likely are going to spend more time inside or at the rented place to take advantage of the amenities.

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Entirely unsound statistically - based on my experiences in 15 years of hosting. And my own travelling with children. But context is important - I host in the UK where outdoor living and dining is not really a thing to be relied upon, hence indoor/all year round space is higher priority and more regularly used. The UK is also historically not really known for it’s welcoming approach to children in restaurants in the evenings etc although that is becoming less so.

Obviously a place with a range of restaurants within walking distance is, I imagine, likely to attract guests who want to go out and eat rather than cook - so dining isn’t a big deal.

I have always had comfy seating in the kitchen as well as the dining table personally and therefore both my cottages also have sofas alongside a dining area in their kitchens, with a separate sitting room for the tv/sofas/log burners. All get good use. And no issues regarding mess, dirt or smells.

The main thing I think is that it doesn’t actually matter. So long as the listing is clear and accurate in what amenities are provided, guests will know whether or not it will suit their needs and book it if it does.

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I’m more jaded than you. Repeat after me: guests don’t read! And even the ones that read don’t try to figure out what is not there if it’s something typical. I would expect a kitchen, a dining area, and a living/lounge area in a 5-bedroom property. So be sure to clearly say “no lounge/living area or indoor dining” in addition to “outdoor dining area”

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I tend to agree that a lack of lounge will not be crucial for the guests we’ll be catering to, as long as the descrtiption is clear.

Families that come here for summer vacation tend to go out during daytime every day. This area has a lot of nice beaches and a lot of activities to offer, hence the popularity. They’ll use the garden and the pool in the morning and when they come back in the afternoon before going out to dinner, or fire up the BBQ and have dinner in the garden. They may spend a day or two chilling in the garden also. These guests are form colder countries and look for sunny days and warm nights, to stay on the terrace or at an outdoors restaurant. Nobody comes here in summer to sit indoors. Most properties here for STR has a roof terracce or a garden, because people want to sit out all evening and night. Nice outdoor areas will more than compensate for lack of an indoor lounge. IMO.

For winter guests, the groups booking this will mostly be sports people or groups coming for an event. Since they are coming for a specific purpose they more often than not do not spend much time at the accomodation. Typically going out after breakfast, coming back for a shower and a change of clothes, before going out for the evening,

I agree that guests do not read descriptions. However being a 5 bedroom property, the price will be higher than a typical holiday rental, so my hope is that we avoid some of the “accidental” erroneous bookings. Had the marked overflowed with similar properties I’d be more concerned. The number of similar properties is very limited, so maybe that will reduce the information overload issue with guests browsing through dozens of possible rentals. I may be wrong… :slight_smile:

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