Why bookings have dropped dramatically:

[gillian]

@JJD

you completely misappropriated my quote

Right-o,
Sorry
Xxxooo

[Margi1]

Well Hello!
I’m the evil sneaky predator prowling around our Airbnb suite while guests aren’t home because- OH WAIT! THAT’S NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL!!
Geez reading all these utterly nasty, negative wrongly judgmental replies to a situation that has never occurred is like watching a Republican “oversight” hearing on CSpan! Y’all must have remedial reading skills or just want to create a response to a comment that was never made.
So here’s how the “I enter the suite when they’re not there” ACTUALLY works:

1. We/I greet our guests when they arrive.
2. We/I show them where everything is such as the 5 gal filtered water dispenser and the bin for their dirty dishes - WHY? Because
3. Our unit has a kitchenette NOT a kitchen so there is NO KITCHEN SINK. (Nowhere to do dishes-and I do NOT want them using the bathroom sink for dishes).
   4)WE WASH THEIR DISHES ON A DAILY BASIS FOR THEM- (Hence NO CHORES) They are then given the choice of:
4. “We can leave your clean dishes outside the room so that YOU put them away or WE WILL COME IN and put them away FOR YOU”
5. Out of 76 booked renters/guests, EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS OPTED FOR US TO PUT THEM AWAY FOR THEM.
   I have included photos here so you can see just how bloody plain we make it that we do their dishes for them.
   I then speak face to face with them to give them the option of leaving them inside the unit put away or outside the unit on the hall table.
   Is that now clear to you people?

I cannot believe the negative and completely UNHELPFUL conclusions so many of you people jumped to.
We also take out the garbage and change the sheets, because it’s ALL PART OF THE NO CHORES SERVICE.
We’ve got a 9 day booking coming on today so- gotta go!
Have a nice day.
Margi

[muddy]

Not one of those signs for guests indicates you will enter their space to put the dishes away in the cupboards when they are out .

@JJD

However, at some point Margi started bragging about sneaking into her entire-unit-Airbnb-listing when her guests go out for the day. She went as far as to say, “knock on wood, I’ve not been caught”.

No one made that up. That is exactly what you said. If you only enter the unit with your guests’ full knowledge and permission, why would you say, as you did, “I’ve not been caught”?

The issue was never that you wash the guests’ dishes, nor why- you made that perfectly clear and no one had a hard time understanding that nor said that wasn’t okay, so why you are continuing to be defensive about that, or re-explain it, is a mystery. You seem to be purposely refusing to acknowledge the reason for other hosts’ criticism of your hosting practices.

Which only had to do with you entering the private space the guests have rented, which you said was to put away the dishes and check on how they were treating the space- i.e. spying on them in their absence.

[zillacop]

Late with this, but I have a suite with a kitchenette, but no kitchen sink. I have a tray in the kitchen area and tell people to leave dirty dishes there and when they want them washed bring them to the entry. I wash them and then let them know when they’re ready for pickup. Since most are here for 2 days, sometimes they just leave the tray in the rental for me to do when they leave.

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

Minor correction here:

@JJD

She went as far as to say, “knock on wood, I’ve not been caught”.

But what @Margi1 wrote was:

@Margi1

Knock wood I’ve never had a complaint.

Prior to that she had written:

@Margi1

So they know ahead of time I’m going to be in the unit every day which, along with the place being spotless and completely tidy when they arrive has so far prevented them from wrecking or trashing the place.

Also, note:

@JJD

However, at some point Margi started bragging about sneaking into her entire-unit-Airbnb-listing when her guests go out for the day. She went as far as to say, “knock on wood, I’ve not been caught”. She seemed to think that it was both clever and acceptable, but most of us were shocked by her confession.

But earlier (22 days ago) she wrote:

@Margi1

Yes. Prior permission, duh. Of course. I dove sneak in- here’s how guests view our service. I am so sorry you jumped to an insanely negative conclusion.

I think the forum owes Marg1 an apology here.

---

For me the issue is whether she should disclose this in the listing rather than just in her orientation, in which she gives them the choice. The advantage I see to putting it in the listing is that it avoids a situation where a scammer guest accuses her of entering the guest’s space without permission.

So, should the listing say something like (edit to include what tidying up the Host does, and whether it’s also the guest’s option for the Host to tidy up):

I wash your dishes each day and you choose whether I place them outside your door or put them away for you.

[JJD]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

the issue is whether she should disclose this in the listing rather than just in her orientation

That is the entirety of the issue. She is legally bound to not only to disclose it in her listing but to still to gain explicit permission prior to entering regardless.

@HostAirbnbVRBO

The advantage I see to putting it in the listing is that it avoids a situation where a scammer guest accuses her of entering the guest’s space without permission.

It’s not scamming. Hosts and guests both agree to the TOS including the Community Policies and each is protected by them.

If I check into Margi’s place and she later comes into the listing without my permission, barring a true emergency, then I’m getting a full refund. Easy peasy. Been there done that. The best we can all hope is that I don’t blab about it on social media further degrading the brand.

Protecting your privacy - Airbnb Help Center

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@JJD

If I check into Margi’s place and she later comes into the listing without my permission

Of course.

But Margi is saying that she DOES get oral permission in the orientation.

Airbnb permits this:

The scammer guest issue I pose is one where the guest gives permission but then later denies doing so. At least if the procedure is in the listing there’s some evidence of the procedure.

Thinking about this, I think that after the orientation, when Margi gets that permission she should write something like (maybe she does this already, I don’t know) :

I so enjoyed meeting you and look forward to hosting you. As discussed, you chose the option where I will return the cleaned dishes in your cupboard each day as well as tidy up your space. [No extra charge for this]. Please don’t hesitate to reach out to me for any reason.

[muddy]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

But what @Margi1 wrote was:

@Margi1

Knock wood I’ve never had a complaint.

That is true.

What she actually said was:

@Margi1

there are instructions in the unit that say the same, a well marked dish bin saying the same.
If they forget I go on and get them- I only do this when they’re gone. Knock wood I’ve never had a complaint.

Do you see anything on the dish bin or the other photos of the notes that says she’ll enter the unit in the guests’ absence to retrieve the dirty dishes and put the clean ones away? So, in fact, she enters without the guests’ permission. And the fact that no one has complained doesn’t make entering when guests are out without their express permission or prior arrangement okay.

[JJD]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

The scammer guest issue I pose is one where the guest gives permission but then later denies doing so. At least if the procedure is in the listing there’s some evidence of the procedure.

There isn’t a scammer guest in this scenario. There is only a scammer host and that should be your concern. The chance of a scammer guest affecting your business is relatively small but every single scammer host affects your business. And mine too.

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@muddy

So, in fact, she enters without the guests’ permission.

I don’t know how you can write this.

Yes, it’s true that there is nothing on the signage about her entering. But more than once she wrote that she gets oral permission.

So, I think the steps for Margi are to disclose the procedure in the listing per my previous post and when she gets that oral permission to enter that she document that on the platform to avoid a he said/she said situation.

Do you agree that’s what she should do?

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@JJD

There isn’t a scammer guest in this scenario.

I raised this scenario to suggest that Margi would be wise to document on the platform that in the orientation the guest(s) had given permission to enter.

@JJD

There is only a scammer host and that should be your concern.

I would be very concerned about a scammer host but I don’t see Margi as one of them since she gets (oral) permission to enter.

When you and I disagree you are right 99% of the time, so what am I missing?

[muddy]

Only in her post today did she say that she discusses with guests whether they would like her to enter the unit to put the dishes away. She never once indicated before that this conversation takes place.

[JJD]

@muddy

Do you see anything on the dish bin or the other photos of the notes that says she’ll enter the unit in the guests’ absence to retrieve the dirty dishes and put the clean ones away?

Nope, it doesn’t say anything about the host entering. Even if it did it would still be inappropriate because guests would’ve already booked and checked in when they saw it.

@HostAirbnbVRBO

But more than once she wrote that she gets oral permission.

She also wrote more than once that she doesn’t get permission

@HostAirbnbVRBO

the steps for Margi are to disclose the procedure in the listing

Yep, that’s the legit way to do it. We all said that a month ago and yet she still isn’t disclosing it in her listing. Hmmm.

I wonder why. If you’re going to get permission for something anyway then there’s no reason not to disclose it before guests book. The only reason to withhold the information is to be manipulative with it later.

[JJD]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

I don’t see Margi as one of them since she gets (oral) permission to enter.

She doesn’t disclose it in her listing. That’s classic host scamming.

As an example: If I saw in her house rules that she likes/prefers/asks to come in during my stay, I would not book. I have a right to know that before I book. It’s quite literally in the terms of service that we all agree to. She must know that other guests might not book too or she’d disclose it in her listing. It’s called manipulation and it’s nasty.

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@muddy

Only in her post today did she say that she discusses with guests whether they would like her to enter the unit to put the dishes away. She never once indicated before that this conversation takes place.

This isn’t accurate.

@HostAirbnbVRBO

But earlier (22 days ago) she wrote:

@Margi1

Yes. Prior permission, duh. Of course. I dove sneak in- here’s how guests view our service. I am so sorry you jumped to an insanely negative conclusion.

Presumably that prior permission took place in a conversation (how else?).

[muddy]

Incorrect. Your quotes there do not indicate that she asks for permission. She only offers her nice reviews as some sort of proof that guests don’t mind, but does not say anywhere that she asks them if it’s okay.

She also said: “That way, I have the guests feel like they’re in a luxury suite, so luxurious in fact that I have them leave their dishes on a table in the hallway so that I wash them every day which means I also bring them in and put them away while they’re out, every single day they’re staying.” (italics mine)

“I have them leave their dishes on a table in the hallway” does not mean she also brings them in and puts them away, nor does any of her signage indicate that, although she seems to erroneously think it does.

[JJD]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

Presumably that prior permission took place in a conversation (how else?).

It. Should. Be. Disclosed. In. The. Listing. Period.

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@JJD

It’s quite literally in the terms of service that we all agree to.

Again, what’s in there is that she must get explicit permission, which she says she does.

Let’s take her at her word.

@JJD

If I saw in her house rules that she likes/prefers/asks to come in during my stay, I would not book.

Understandable.

That’s why I suggested:

@HostAirbnbVRBO

So, should the listing say something like (edit to include what tidying up the Host does, and whether it’s also the guest’s option for the Host to tidy up):

I wash your dishes each day and you choose whether I place them outside your door or put them away for you.

Notice the words “you choose.”

[JJD]

@HostAirbnbVRBO

Let’s take her at her word.

Which one

Wait. Just the one in the all-caps, right

[HostAirbnbVRBO]

@JJD

It. Should. Be. Disclosed. In. The. Listing. Period.

The permission does not need to be in the listing if it’s a guest option.

What should be disclosed in the listing is that at the guest’s option the Host will return the dishes to the cupboard each day and tidy up.

Right?