Strict Cancellation - Sometimes I can't in good conscience REFUSE a cancellation request

What does that mean, “mutually refund”? I’ve never heard of it.

No, I mean manually refund… where you go into the reservation and “Send Money.”

Did Air waive all the cancellation fees and cancel for her, or did the guest cancel and only receive half of the money back because you are on strict? And now guest is expecting you to refund the other half?

Kona’s guest cancelled and received half back, and the other half to be paid out at the originally scheduled time. She was willing to give back the remaining half except for a $100 fee. So when she went in to manually refund, Air’s message said that it would be taken out of her next payout. She didn’t want to refund because she wouldn’t be receiving the original payout for months later…

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Exactly! You said it better than I was able to! :joy:

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Ah! Now, I finally understand!! Thanks! And @konacoconutz, you’re absolutely right… I would NEVER front a loan of hundreds of dollars to a guest because they wanted to cancel!

Anyway… we did just get paid in full on the guest who checked in yesterday. So, whatever we did - it’s not the same thing Kona did! Thank God!

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Yeh I did refund the guy, but only at the time of his stay, a day or so before, so that the refund would become my payout.

I hope they changed that whole thing. Big hassle for guest and host!

It certainly seems to be ambiguous. Again this was last year so maybe they changed it.
It applies to the elective part of the refund remember.

Yep, you definitely did the right thing. But yes, it is very messed up. Air really needs to change that bad.

Absolutely agree, that guests who made a mistake with booking (that can happen to anyone!) and immediately let me know, shuold of course be refunded. This has happened a couple of times with us, with little fanfare or inconvenience.

On the subject of Air taking out money from future bookings, OMG, have I got some STORIES!

We used to live in a very popular touristy location, and had been hosting since the advent of Air, with mostly stellar interactions…in the beginning. After the site’s popularity grew (as well as the market saturated with other hosts-inevitable), we noticed a sharp decline in both Customer Service for hosts, as well as caliber of guests.

One guest booked our home for nearly an entire month.

After this guest had checked in, the troubles began. After a day and a half in the apartment, they say that they want to leave…but want a 100% refund. We have all had “high-maintenance” guests so we thought after a long time hosting we could handle any issues that may arise. We gently tried to reel them in (mind you, they are staying in our home already and we are out of town). We told them that we would have our property manager come and handle any queries, but no, they want to leave, but she insists on the 100% refund BEFORE they will CHECK-OUT, as in give us all our money or we will just squat in your place until you do, or Airbnb does.

We tell them that this is not how the service works, and unless there is something catastrophically wrong with a listing, there are no refunds after a guest checks in at all, and that we were making a special concession for them, but they would (of course!) need to pay for the time already stayed and also need to handle the cancellation from their end (immediately) to free up the calendar days for re-booking. Once that happened, we’d be happy to discuss a refund (as a special concession). They do not budge, or leave our home, or even cancel. They continued to stay in our home FOR FIVE DAYS, while we are out of town trying to appease their ludicrous demands, while enjoying our home, (sleeping, eating, cooking) in this “awful” place that is sooo uninhabitable that they feel entitled to a full refund.

Do I even need to tell you what happened? AIRBNB GAVE THEM A 100% REFUND!!! ----AND TOOK THE MONEY FROM OUR FUTURE BOOKINGS, (because the payment went through after the first day). It was a months rate so not exactly chump change. It also took a lot of wrangling to reopen the dates again and we were only able to rebook about a week of the days. So we lost time on our own vacation, paid for the cleaners twice, and only had a week out of a month’s payment. We never would have taken a vacation in the first place. They also left a holy freaking hell of a mess.

We stopped hosting that home very soon after that, because this was not the first time that Airbnb pandered to scammers getting free holidays. We had already had a couple of them in the past, all with the same result. Refunded 100% of their money, even after they had checked in and stayed a while, using everything, eating and sleeping there…and we paid for it. Not Airbnb! Honestly if someone walked in to our place, said no way/didn’t like it and left immediately, we would work with them. We don’t want to have unhappy people in our home. But these were seasoned scammers. They knew exactly what they were doing. It was the audacity that they would not only stay, but stay for days and days, cooking, eating, sleeping, bathing, snooping into our private stuff, essentially enjoying themselves…and then say they want a full refund based on some bogus claim. One scammer took pictures of the ceiling vents and underneath the sinks and said that they had never stayed or slept in the house when they had been there for three days. They got a full refund from Air.

Scam artists had found out how to buck Airbnb’s system, and that as a business partner, Airbnb could not give a shite if we, the hosts, were left holding the crap bag.

We did eventually return to hosting on a different property, and we have learned a few things about Airbnb that may help you, especially if you are new to hosting:

  1. Airbnb is not on the side of hosts at all. (Etch this into your brain…and then let it go).
    Air has proved time and again that hosts are (now), simply a numbers game for them. Guests on the other hand, have quite a few benefits and if they bitch hard enough, will be granted almost anything.
  2. Air went from being an amazing small home-sharing site, to being a billion dollar operation, with hosts now assuming nearly all of the risks. At least with regard to their own properties.
  3. As Airbnb’s popularity has grown, so has its userbase. That brings with it the good and bad. ALL guests used to be stellar in the beginning. Now, you have to take the problems with the benefits. Faster bookings, greater reach, but also more creeps now. We still consider 99% of guests to be stellar. Sadly, it is the “problem child” guests whom we remember the most.
  4. Airbnb’s reviews are totally skewed towards the guests. (Also etch this into your brain). Guests couldn’t care less about their own reviews. They can just pack up and make a new profile if they get a bad review. Hosts on the other hand, work hard for every one of their five stars, and take deep hits on negativity. We also are viewed poorly if we “tattle on” or react to, problem guests. It’s almost like a flashing neon sign on your listing, so react with caution. Guests do peruse your reviews and responses. A better tack is to just ignore any negativity and let it fade into obsucurity, drowned out by the other great reviews. Hoping that this part of the site is changed soon. One fab idea would be secret reviews (only seen and shared by other hosts).
  5. Airbnb does NOT have a $1m insurance guarantee. Just look up the truly horrific stories. They abound. Do not ever think that they will cover anything and everything, or you could lose your shirt. Cover yourself and know the risks.

But most importantly:
6. AIRBNB IS STILL AN AMAZING SITE and you can make money, supplement your income, create a business, improve your home with the funds, take holidays, etc. You just need to be savvy, always know the risks, and plan accordingly.

We now do a few things very differently from our original hosting home-sharing days:
-we limit the number of days guests can stay (no more eating thousands $$). If a guest cancels, not a big deal anymore because it’s just a few days-maximum.
-we also don’t call Air for anything. Ever. It is hit or miss with their cs reps. They’re all still nice, but they will defer to guests. Early Air was a partnership, now it’s your fault if you get scammed.
-we only host “on-site.” i.e. we also live here but have guest quarters. No more leaving our home in the hands of (sometimes) unscrupulous strangers with no one there to keep a watchful eye.
-WE HAVE SURVEILLANCE (outside). Just this alone we think keeps people on good behavior, cuts down on the creeps, smokers, partiers or degenerates.
-we carry extra insurance, have a property manager, have watchful neighbors, and keep in constant contact with guests. We don’t intrude, but we always greet people, get a gander, take down their license plates (this is a law in many cities) and are just…present. This has cut our headaches down to almost nil. Yes, it is a bit more work, but who cares? We’re still making money. Things change. We learned to be adaptable.

Understandably not everyone is retired or can be onsite and do all of these things, but you can definitely keep abreast of what is happening with your property in numerous ways, and just knowing the benefits and limitations of Airbnb, feel much better and confident as a result.

So yes, our original easygoing gravy train had ended, but a new chapter began. One that is honest, direct and less simple, but still a lot of fun and ultimately beneficial to our livelihood. In fact, I think we enjoy hosting now much more than before. It feels like when we very first started but with a helluva lot more control. As a result, we are able to be more flexible than in the past. We have so many guests and high volume that we happily grant the odd request here and there. Hosting feels like less of a burden and we experience less burn-out. There are also new things that never existed before, like meeting other hosts, trading ideas and having co-hosts, etc. That part is awesome! We cover our asses more now for certain, but still make money, have fun and try not to sweat the small stuff. Still learning every day how best to navigate this.

In short, be cautious yes, but don’t be frightened!! You still control your property. You can still partner with Air, just be aware of the risks and know exactly what you’re doing and why. Then you will never feel like a victim. When you know that this is a “brass ring” type of deal, you can just grab it while it’s there. Maybe your city will change, maybe the service will change, but taking control of what and how you run your business wherever and however you can, will have you feeling much better about it all…and feeling grateful. Like the first time you saw the money show up in your bank. Cha-Ching!

We are still incredibly grateful to have discovered Airbnb. It is hands down the top site for bookings. The glory days of Airbnb are over. Take the good with the bad and GET PAID! $$$$$$ :slight_smile:

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Excellent, excellent!! Your taking the time to relate your experiences is very much appreciated and extremely valuable.

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FANTASTIC HELPFUL INSIGHTFUL POST!!! Thank you so much and I agree with every word you’ve said. Bravo! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::heart_eyes:

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I second SandyToes! Post of the year (so far)!

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Wish we could PIN IT somehow. I live this exact philosophy but couldn’t say it this well or this positively. Wow. Tour de force. Thank you Let’s. Please stick around but reallly, you have said it all right here.

Now… to that cleaning… 4pm comes in a hurry. :rofl:

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Thanks that’s really helpful @LetsShareThoughts

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My Christmas sh8tshow was only $1000 lost but could have been two. Not sure what I am going to do for Christmas this year. Maybe not rent it at all.

Set a limit for number of days, like three days max, and change it for other times of year. That’s what we did and have never looked back. I don’t know why this great stock is placed on long-term guests. We don’t like LT guests any longer and see zero benefit to hosting them, aside from being able to leave (which we all know, depends on the guests, as they can be high-maintenance anyway or cancel, derailing your travel plans). But it is almost across the board the long-termers who “rough up” our house the most. (Not always of course. Had a guy stay for weeks who you could barely tell he’d even been there. Just speaking generally). The one, two and three day guests almost always GO OUT and spend their days in the place they’re visiting, to maximize their time in their host city. The long-term people have spent days and days hanging around the property all day, cleaned their cars in our driveway (used our white towels to do so), filled up our trash cans, invited randoms to stay over or use our pool, left bigger messes, etc. No thanks.

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To say nothing of how, if you are in the US, tenants rights are conferred on LT guests after 30 days. Which means you’d have to grant them due process in terms of evictions and all the rest. I think if you do have a LT guest, they need to book a couple of weeks first to see if it is a fit and then sign a regular lease that protects you. Also, do their background check, get a deposit payable to you and all the rest.

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I never allowed anyone to stay past 28 days, which was the cutoff for LT tenants in the city in which I used to host. It wasn’t something that weighed heavily on my mind, but it certainly crossed it. But now, I just don’t bother with LT guests at all. Not even for a couple of weeks. We may change our stance on this in the future, but after being a landlord for many years (and getting rid of our investment props altogether), I do not welcome that headache ever again. I just read a great article on the subject recently. A couple echoing my sentiments on being a landlord. Also just commented on another thread, with a poster concerned about usurping low-income housing by replacing it with STR. That is an issue that is mostly inaccurate, way overblown (thanks to the hotel lobby in my former city), and specific only to anomaly regions.

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I don’t know whether they actually have it or not. But I do know you’re not going to get it! A host is never going to get paid anything from Air for any damage at all.

I agree with that. The only way we would host off-site is if we were hosting in a place that wasn’t our own residence. If it was setup for the sole purpose of hosting - we might do it. But we’d NEVER host out of our own home again while we’re off-site.

We tried it this Christmas. Had some guests coming in over the holidays, which is a really busy time for us. But at the same time we had made plans to visit my family for Christmas - out of town.

We were appalled at how we found the place when we got back. It was unbelievable. Such a mess. They had taken food from us that is marked as clearly off limits to guests. They left trash everywhere. It was so different than how our guests act when we’re here. Just our mere presence is enough to make people behave - even if they don’t see us any time other than when they first arrive.

It’s amazing, when a guests meets you upon arrival, and then sees you go back into a room in another part of the house - just knowing you’re there is enough for them to behave. But when they know they’re the only ones here… look out!

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That’s too bad about your xmas guests. :confused: My family is insane at the holidays and we’ve rented lakehouses and other destination spots where I’ve spent so much time cleaning before we all left because I know what it’s like to deal with an awful mess as a host…and that’s my own family! ha

Still gotta say that 99.9% of our guests are so sweet and lovely that I’m really perplexed when I only spend time thinking about the rotten .01%! Must be the human brain!

Did you watch the Q&A with the CEO? There’s another one on the 22nd. I think it’s a great sign that the site is having those, regardless of current effectiveness. It shows initiative and willingness to change. Maybe Air will go back to its roots and a lot of these issues will just be growing pains. Fingers crossed!

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