SERVICE DOG application

Here’s how I’m going to play it – I will (in accordance with Airbnb policy) accept at face value the guest’s claim that they require a service dog, but ask for certification to confirm that the dog they are bringing is indeed an actual service dog. I realize it’s easy to cheat, but the very fact I am asking for paperwork might discourage guests pulling the “my-pet-is-a-service-dog” scam and convince them to choose a less skeptical host or a pet-friendly one.

I do have a question – lots and lots and lots of Airbnb properties are pet-friendly… why not just choose one of them if you want to travel with Rover and Fifi?

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I understand.

But I am hopeful that @JJD or someone more knowledgeable than I could inform you of the pros and cons of that. Your approach would be against Airbnb policy in USA, maybe because it is also against ADA law here.

Just looking at the logic – what’s the difference between requiring a car to have a disability tag to be eligible for special treatment in a parking lot and requiring a dog to have analogous documentation. It the parking lot the social contract is “We all agree it’s fair to have special parking reserved for people who have difficulty making a long walk to the front door… but to prevent abuse, we require certification,” and saying “We all agree people who genuinely require service dogs should be allowed indoors where pet dogs are not allowed, but to prevent abuse, we require certification.”

I understand that the law is what it is, but I don’t get the inconsistency.

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@Sparky_O_Reilly Well put. Except you are using logical thinking, which Airbnb doesn’t.

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I’ve read somewhere about this. The rationale is that if service dogs need to be certified then certification organizations would spring up and add yet another expense for the person with the disability.

The disability tag requires, I think, just a note from the doctor, an expense the person has already incurred.

I’ve read recently that some states have enacted laws that would make claiming an animal is a service animal when they are not a criminal offense. So that’s the ‘stick’ approach.

I don’t know what the right answer is. It seems to me that training a service animal is VERY expensive and that certification might not add much more to the expense. But like everything else these days it seems that some businesses continually test the edges of the law to maximize income with no sense of ethics, and the regulators can’t keep up with them, or feel forced to make it ever harder, adding more red tape and expense for everyone.

And to add to my reply, it’s not just Airbnb not requiring documentation. It’s the ADA law. If you bring what you say is a service animal into a store the business cannot ask for documentation. That’s the law in the U.S. So we all have our complaints about Airbnb but I don’t think that this is fairly one of them.

But Airbnb operates all over the world and the US is not the center of the universe.

Doctors generally charge for writing a letter or a note, so it is not, in fact, and expense already incurred.

On the doctor writing the note, the expense I would think would be a small administrative expense because the expense that has been incurred is the expense for determining whether the patient is disabled such that their mobility is impaired. The doctor treating the individual already knows that. So, there is a difference here, especially because once a certification process is established it’s likely that there will be a recertification process. [I mis-spelled that as a rectification process, and that too might be required!]

As for Airbnb using US law, Airbnb is a US company, so it seems a reasonable thing to do except where it conflicts with local law.

As for your statement that the US is not the center of the universe that, of course, is true as the universe has no center.

I hope we don’t debate this.

Okay, so we can ask those 2 questions and only those 2 questions. After that, what? Is there a certain way they can answer that will make evident that they’re scamming a host or retail owner? Example: If they say “No” to #1 and “I don’t know” to #2, are we allowed to say, “then your animal is a pet and not a service animal according to the ADA and my rental disallows pets?”

Are we protected then? Or do we have to accept the animal whatever answers they give?

It seems to me – where is @JJD ? – that is they say ‘No’ to ‘1’ that they are not a service animal. End of story. You do not need to admit entrance.

If they say ‘I don’t know’ to #2, I think the same as above. Yes, then you can disallow if you disallow pets. That is my reading.

These questions should be asked on the platform where there is a record.

No, I don’t think you need to accept the animal no matter what answers they give, If they say, in your example, ‘no’ to #1, game over, you don’t need to accept. If they say ‘I don’t know’ to #2 I think game is over as well.

What I would do – to be careful-- is if I got one of these problematic answers, I would immediately and first go to Airbnb to say ‘Look!’ and here’s what I am about to do. Agree?

Aye, so can’t help asking (again) what’s an ESA?

:rofl:

JF

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Here is how they do it in the jurisdiction where I live. The law does not recognize a service dog as such unless it is trained at a government-certified training school. In order to achieve certification the training school has to meet a set of standards and is subject to government inspections to confirm those standards are being upheld… just like a private school for children.

When a dog “graduates” from one of these training schools, it gets a registered “diploma.” If you buy one of these trained dogs, the diploma is part of the package… there is no separate, expensive certification process.

This does not stop someone outside this system from training dogs in their back yard and selling those dogs to (for example) blind people – it’s just that such dogs are not recognized in law within this jurisdiction as service dogs (with all the attendant rights). In law, those doges would be specially-trained pets, and nothing more.

American Kennel Club article

For some reason all I could think of is “of course it isn’t the center—the earth is flat…”. Before someone melts down—I’m being silly. :joy:

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As far as I know, the only organizations training service dogs in the US are non-profits that have longstanding connections to major organizations for those living with disabilities. They get government funding to provide assistance animals. In most cases, the owners also have to be trained with the animal.

You obviously have not watched the US government and the governments of its 50 states attempting to legislate. It’s not like a parliamentary system, where the majority simply passes what is introduced because they have the majority.

US law at the state and Federal level is full of inconsistencies and inequities, but I’ll wager English law is no better.

In the US, a majority is not always a majority

See my answer above.

But you are right in what you are implying. Only if they are idiots will they fail the test here.

They must say (really ‘write’ as your only hope is that they make a mistake, so you want these Q&A on the platform) ‘yes’ to Question 1.

For question 2 they must write something plausible like, “The dog senses when my heart’s rhythm changes and I can take my medication.” or “The dog senses when I engage in certain repetitive activities and can break my pattern.” I’m making these answers up, but they seem plausible enough that you or I wouldn’t be able to persuasively argue that this is not a service animal. So it seems pretty easy to pass off a pet as a service animal.

Where I think an ordinary pet would get ‘caught’ is by their behavior, for which the Host can take action:

From Airbnb’s accessibility policy:

  • A guest’s service animal must not be:
    • Out of control
    • Unhousebroken
    • Left alone at the listing without prior approval
    • Allowed into areas that are considered unauthorized to the guest
    • Allowed in a public space without being harnessed, leashed, or tethered and not under the guest’s control

But if a guest had a well trained dog that was not really a service animal they could get away with it.

BTW, I’m not sure what ‘out of control’ means but if I saw a ‘service dog’ that was excitable and wagging its tail and seeking attention from strangers I would be pretty sure it is not a service dog, but I’m not sure if that qualifies as ‘out of control.’

I just found this (Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA) but I don’t find it helpful:

Q27. What does under control mean? Do service animals have to be on a leash? Do they have to be quiet and not bark?

A. The ADA requires that service animals be under the control of the handler at all times. In most instances, the handler will be the individual with a disability or a third party who accompanies the individual with a disability. In the school (K-12) context and in similar settings, the school or similar entity may need to provide some assistance to enable a particular student to handle his or her service animal. The service animal must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered while in public places unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the person’s disability prevents use of these devices. In that case, the person must use voice, signal, or other effective means to maintain control of the animal. For example, a person who uses a wheelchair may use a long, retractable leash to allow her service animal to pick up or retrieve items. She may not allow the dog to wander away from her and must maintain control of the dog, even if it is retrieving an item at a distance from her. Or, a returning veteran who has PTSD and has great difficulty entering unfamiliar spaces may have a dog that is trained to enter a space, check to see that no threats are there, and come back and signal that it is safe to enter. The dog must be off leash to do its job, but may be leashed at other times. Under control also means that a service animal should not be allowed to bark repeatedly in a lecture hall, theater, library, or other quiet place. However, if a dog barks just once, or barks because someone has provoked it, this would not mean that the dog is out of control.

Here’s an interesting article that makes the case for some kind of certification in the US, specifically Massachusetts : Why We Need National Certification to Address Service Dog Fraud - NEADS World Class Service Dogs

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