Questions about squatters

I’m not clear on when or how a guest can becomes a tenant who is renting? There’s no lease ever. The agreement is to stay for the length of time prepaid. I’ve more than likely got a the next guest ready to arrive.

One way or another they are going out the door. They can argue but they’ll do it from the street.

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When a guest becomes a tenant differs from locality to locality. Where I live, Los Angeles, CA if a guest (paying or non-paying) stays in your property for 30 days or more the guest becomes a tenant. This means that if you want the guest to leave you have to go through the eviction process. There would be serious legal consequences for physically throwing them out.

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Here in Florida there are no tenancy laws – huge amounts of money are made annually by people renting to “snowbirds” from up North who come down here for 2, 3, 4, 6 months…

In San Francisco you have to go to court to get someone out no matter what. No policeperson will physically remove someone from the premises for you without a court order. It’s crazy, but the rules are different in SF. Once someone decides they want to stay you have very little recourse until the courts get involved. And the “tenant” or “guest” will have free prepresentation. You will have to serve your guest with a notice and then go to court. Leases mean nothing and rental contracts mean nothing. And they don’t care who you have coming to stay next. Be glad if you live in a city where things aren’t as strict

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Please note that in sf once the lease is up the tenant goes to month to month. You can’t decide you want the unit back at the end of the lease… they are then in there as long as they want to stay or if they stop paying rent (and then you have to follow legal steps to get them out). If you ever plan to move back in you won’t be able to without paying the tenant a lot of money. I highly advise you to speak to a landlord lawyer in sf before you get involved with air

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It’s the same in Los Angeles, CA. Leases switch to month to month if a new lease isn’t signed. Whether to sign a new lease or switch to month to month is the tenants’ (not the landlords’) choice. If you want someone who has stayed for 30 days or more to leave your property you must evict them. Even non-paying house guests who stay more than 30 days gain tenants’ rights in California.

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Apparently it doesn’t even need to be 30 days. They can decide after a week that they have residency. This is one reason you should never let them send mail to your address.

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Yes. I always refer people to fedex if they need to have something sent by mail while staying. My mailbox has a lock on it so guests can’t access the mail

Looks like there’s lots of variables to this. City and state laws may be the biggest. I live in my space so I could probably get the police to remove the person if I didn’t feel safe. Like a spouse might not feel safe so files a complaint. That’s big here in Boston. The people I get are mostly not staying permanently in Boston. Some do relocate. Mostly they are here for a short term project of some sort and then return to whatever they had going on. Mostly it’s returning to their country of origin.

I’m still not clear on how this might be different from a hotel? If you stay at a hotel for a month or more you are not on a lease or rental agreement. The hotel would be happy to receive mail or packages for you. What would they do at the end of the stay and you weren’t paying?

A college friend of my husband’s lived in a hotel for years. He ran out of money and stopped paying. The hotel owners went through the same eviction process as any landlord would have to.

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The police don’t get involved in civil disputes like that. If you had someone there who claimed they had a legal right to be in your place (their stuff at your house, their mail coming to your address, etc.) the police will do nothing to remove them. The police will respond if you have something criminal happen like domestic violence or criminal trespass.

I think the type of guests I’m getting aren’t a problem. They are coming for a very specific purpose and mostly plan this a few months in advance. I have one guest here now who booked in January. He’s here until the middle of September. Another guest arrives from Germany on 9/1 and stays until mid December. I think because I’m booked that the person who might want to scam me out of a place to live needs the place right away. I’m going to watch out for people who are local and don’t have a good reason for staying here.

You’ve been lucky. International guests coming for a reason such as academics are probably okay and probably won’t try to squat. But you do just never know.

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I agree. @duanemitchell seems to be intent on believing it can’t happen to him, but it can. I have a friend who used to have a roommate. He had a good job and paid his rent on time for many years. Then he lost his job and stopped paying his rent. My friend and her husband had to evict him.

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I just don’t know anyone for whom this has even come close to happening to. Yes, I have heard of rental issues but I’m not renting. My sister in Florida had a roommate who did not pay rent. Then brazenly stated that the eviction process meant they’d be there for a couple of months. We had them out legally in 48 hours. It works both ways if you work it right.

You are incorrect that, “It works both ways if you work it right.” Here is a quote from @KenH about Florida and tenancy. “Here in Florida there are no tenancy laws – huge amounts of money are made annually by people renting to “snowbirds” from up North who come down here for 2, 3, 4, 6 months…” Florida is the exception, not the rule.

https://www.thelpa.com/lpa/lllaw.html

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I am not sure of the specific differences between police removing guests from a hotel, etc. and the time frame. But - when I lived in NY I stayed in a motel for 3 months. There were also other long term tenants. I almost made the mistake of taking in one of the hotel squatter’s as a roommate. I found a two bedroom apt., signed the lease, and paid the security deposit but the place was not immediately available.

Then I started to notice signs with my soon to be roommate and his money issues. My gut told me not to move in with him. I did lose a good portion of my security deposit because the lanlord had to relist the place in the newspaper. Then shortly after the owners of the motel were banging on the door of the roommate as he was way behind in rent. I finally found out from the owners that they discovered he moved from motel to motel, forcing owners to go through the eviction process.

I currently have a local friend who is having to kick out her tenants. She has not gone through the formal court process. She didn’t think she had to. So if her tenants do not willingly leave, she will soon find out what the process is to evict tenants.

I am correct. I was there. I initiated the process using attorneys that were good friends of mine. No second hand information here. There are ways to get people out of your home, domicile, castle or call it what you like. Other property, rental property for example, may be a different story.

If I read KenH’s post correct there aren’t any laws to protect tenants?

The important point that you are missing is that because of “snowbirds” Florida is an anomaly in not giving tenants’ rights to people who’ve stayed in a rental for a certain period of time. Many states do in fact confer tenants’ rights after a period of time. If you have a guest who overstays the amount of time you will have to follow the legal eviction process. Just Google “Airbnb squatters” to see many horror stories.

I feel like you may need to listen to @EllenN and do some major Google searching on this topic and how it has also happened to live in hosts. Here is a good place to start : Squatting AirBnB Guest - Airbnb hosts forum

As it’s not always as easy and straightforward as one might think. If your ‘guest’ could prove to the cop they have a legal right to be there, there is nothing the cop will do unless one of you decides to leave on your own accord. I think what everyone is trying to tell you is to be careful, just because you think or think you know how things work, the cards don’t always fall perfectly.

As for the OP, yes renting to anyone in SF for more than 30 days will give them tenant rights, and for us that is not a risk we want to to take, so we cap our stays to 28 days.

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