What I meant was that it isn’t reasonable to expect to end up with the same amount of money in your pocket if you hire someone to do something for you, rather than if you had done it yourself.
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50% of the GROSS is w-a-a-a-a-y too much, IMHO.
I don’t happen to consider mortgage payments to be an str “expense”. Mortgage payments have to do with one’s equity in the property.
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Hi @Annet3176 - I have given this some thought, and if we weren’t still living in times where multiple infectious diseases were circulating widely, I would probably do it. I’ve stayed at another place in the area that does it–it seems a bit more messy than some AirBnB’s but you can tell that the guests care for the place and abide by the rules to clean it themselves. I would like to catch up with you privately if we decide to go that way, though. Would that be OK?
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I see the cleaning fees by going to the platforms (MSG is their own booking site, AirBnB and VRBO show some fees). I don’t know why the cleaning fees are so different; that’s part of the problem. There’s a lack of transparency across the platforms.
I really like your suggestion to ask for a 30-minute meeting! We’ll definitely ask for that
So that might be the explanation – fitting the fees into their spreadsheet template.
I hope you develop your own spreadsheet with not just the revenue and cleaning/platform/property management fees but all the other costs associated with the property.
You might want to connect with @Novi on this platform, who is in a similar situation as yours and quite adept at Excel. Look for the thread here: How to find co-hosts?
It might not at first seem exactly on point, but follow all the way down.
Good luck and keep us in the loop – you’ll find resources and a good sounding board here.
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Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. To answer your (and some others’) questions:
- I made up the spreadsheet based on what was visible to the guest; MSG is the abbreviation for the property management company’s own platform
- How the host described the other fees was a bit confusing (i.e., the additional insurance they take that they say they pass along to the guest-I thought they said it cost about $25
- Unfortunately, the refuse to cohost, so I have no idea how to figure out the platform fees they’re paying
Another update: They’ve returned the first month’s accounting in what seems to be their own spreadsheet. It doesn’t include anything about the platforms at all, and the only fees that are listed are the cleaning fee, their 30% (taken off of the nightly rate, not the rate + cleaning fee) and the charge for some handyman stuff that I asked them to do. Here’s the spreadsheet, but I plan to follow the advice here to ask them to sit down and explain everything.
I’ve also learned that they block dates on their own platform for guests who’ve asked dates to be held. This led to me and the family rushing out on the day before Thanksgiving so they could get in and clean. The guests never showed, so we rushed out of our own place needlessly, which is a bummer. Is it normal for a property management company to hold dates like that?
Also, for folks who are curious, we’re not trying to use it as a significant source of investment income, just hoping to offset the additional mortgage costs from refinancing our primary home. We had hoped to primarily use it as a getaway ourselves until we retire. Still have to calculate how much (if any) profit we have after electricity, internet, handyman stuff, etc.
Thanks again to everyone who’s given their advice! We really appreciate it.
Hi Chris,
I’m not sure if you realized this, but the way you worded that comes across as kind of derisive. I’m curious as to why you would want to post in what is supposed to be an online community if your contribution comes across this way.
To answer the question no, we aren’t using it primarily as an investment, so we had no thoughts of easy money or money flowing in.
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Thanks again, all! I really appreciate all the thoughtful replies. I hope this giant reply post doesn’t mess with the way discussions usually go.
@HostAirbnbVRBO I see my hour of calculations overlapped with your new reply. I’ll definitely look into the other thread and contact that person. I also agree that it’s a lot of work! We’re really grateful they have a handyman available and are happy to pay those costs to keep the place really nice. I wish they would allow us to co-host, but they are really controlling all of the platforms and communications. They won’t use the copy I wrote for the ads, even. They allow me to put a Welcome book in the place, so I guess that’s good?
@Annet3176 I’ll reach out next week probably if that’s OK?
@Muddy, I agree that an hourly rate is a good way to make sure you make enough. Thanks for all your thoughts/comments!
@SleepingCoyote , the idea of using Next Door and Craigslist is great. I was also going to look into the local community college to see if there’s a way to scoop people up to become reliable PMs, cleaners, or handypeople. I thought I might also ask at the grocery store and post office (small town). And thank you for the well wishes 
@icenisf This is how the previous owner did it -they had the next door neighbor clean. I’d like to do that, but we haven’t hit it off yet and she keeps backing out of actual get togethers with me, which makes me a bit worried about how reliable she’d be as a cleaner.
@Rolf good point about profits vs. revenue! That’s the kind of thing that people like us, who are new to running businesses in general, have to keep in mind.
@twokgrad that’s exactly what we’re wondering…
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I would advise you to run from this company. You really don’t want to be dealing with a property manager who insists on controlling everything. And booting you out of your own place because they decided to take a booking instead of blocking off dates when you would be there? That’s pretty outrageous. You should be the host, and the manager the co-host. Otherwise if you decide to disengage with them and hire other managers, you have to start from scratch with a new listing and no reviews.
And there are hosts who have had property managers like this refuse to give up the listing, continuing to take bookings. And Airbnb will not help you out on this- you would have to go the legal route to get the pm to cease and desist.
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Just a note about this forum. If you are familiar with “online” anything you know it has a cross section of people. This is not a support group, it’s just a way for hosts to connect with other hosts. Some here will be helpful and quite worth the trouble. Others aren’t such happy campers and never have anything nice to say. The best strategy is probably just to scroll on past such contributors. People who are ignored are more likely to go away. If you want to get into a tit for tat exchange, it’s less likely to go away.
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You literally start your post with: “ This is our first investment property”
You thought it was easy money, and come here on this forum expecting other users to solve your problems, like you expect from your property manager.
And if you don’t like what you hear you start playing the victim role.
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Thanks, @KKC. I’m actually a scientist specializing in the potential for online communities to benefit mental health, so I always like to assume people are willing to use online communities for positive reasons. But of course I know, like we all do, that people sometimes don’t use them that way. It’s really quite sad. But also interesting from a scientific perspective.
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After being in “online communities” in some form since the mid 90’s, I always assume people use online communities to serve their own needs and like real communities, there are always bad actors. In any case, neither you nor Chris really accomplish anything by scolding one another. Many people come here expecting a “support group,” as if all hosts are of a mind. We aren’t.
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Im happy to chat with you. I’ll post the short (ok long version) version here.
- Stock rental well with cleaning supplies & tools (mops, brooms, cloths, rubber gloves, etc.) including antibacterial wipes like Clorox wipe-ups.
- Provide laundry detergent & fabric softener
- Include in the rental description & first correspondence to guest: to help keep this rental affordable, it is a “guest does exit cleaning” rental. The guest is to do the exit cleaning & wash/dry/stow the towels & bed linens you used (many guests bring their own so they are not doing laundry the morning of checkout)
- Send message to guest the day before checkout: I hope you are enjoying your stay. Sadly tomorrow is check -out at 1:00. To protect yourself if the next guest claims the rental wasn’t cleaned, send pictures to me if the cleaned unit (including under toilet seat & bathroom mirrors). In the meantime if you have any questions let me know.
There is a checklist posted on the refrigerator.
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I have a cleaner who wants to work as her schedule allows. In a separate message, “if you prefer to use a cleaning service, contact xxxxx at xxxxxx. She accepts jobs based on availability so contact her soon. She accepts payments via Zelle & cash.”
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During peak season, there is usually an odd night or two each month that is not booked. I’m close enough I can pop in to restock supplies & clean.
While yes different people see clean differently in most cases the guest does a better job than the services who zoom in, spray tubs with Clorox, clean toilets, vacuum & zoom out.
“Positive” reasons may not mean the same thing to everyone, though. Satirists make a living out of making fun of things- some people would characterize that as being “negative”. And how something is perceived is also quite individual. You could give the same advice to 2 different people, and one might be the type to not take themselves or things too seriously, and say, “Hey, thanks, that never occurred to me before” and another take it as some personal criticism and be super defensive.
While there’s never a need to be downright nasty, on almost all public forums there are posters who are very tactful and weigh their words, and some who offer non-sugar-coated, blunt, tough love. The latter is not necessarily at all negative, we just all have different communication styles. Most people are trying to offer and share valuable knowledge, even if they aren’t always “nice” about it.
I dread a world where everything has to be seen as “positive”, and not offend anyone. Can you imagine if all movie, book, and product reviews only had positive things to say? Reviews would then become pretty useless. “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything” is good advice if your aunt asks how you like her new decor- even if you think it’s revolting, saying so would serve no purpose other than to be hurtful. But it doesn’t pertain to giving advice on online forums or leaving reviews, IMO.
I say there are 3 things which are considered to be major sins in this millennium- smoking, gluten, and being “negative.”
That’s actually changing after a number of recent lawsuits. The reason college creds are given is that internships are meant to be real world educational opportunities. It has nothing to do with if the intern is paid or not.
Ofcourse it’s unfortunate that corporations and unscrupulous businesses have taken advantage of workers. Aside from being unethical to not pay for intern labor, companies (and business owners) now run the risk of being sued for back wages + fines.
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Wow! I love how you build in some accountability there by having guests take photos. This might actually be a good fit for me because I do have someone who lives next door who has done cleaning in the past for the place, so between asking guests to clean it themselves and having her available if someone doesn’t want to do that, it seems like it might work out. I’m so intrigued…
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Yeah, I was out of line; having a crap day. I usually don’t bring my baggage into my online existence, but I’m not immune to the pull of being anonymous.
I think you’re right about people using online communities to serve their own needs. The cool thing is that sometimes this leads to really supportive and inclusive communities, which is really fascinating. These don’t usually get as much press as the communities that are not as supportive and inclusive.
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Sorry Chris, I was being a jerk with my response. No excuses; I was just having a bad day. I don’t like or agree with what you said, but my apologies for how I responded .
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