It's an awfully big adventure! (PS opinions needed on an issue, please!)

[konacoconutz]

JustShoot,

Can I ask a couple of questions? DO you smoke, and if so was outside smoking allowed? How far away from the door was it? Sometimes smokers are unaware that their smoke clings to them, whether they actually partake outside and then just walk into the house. Seems like she over exaggerated the smoking claims, as I cannot imagine you or any respectful guest smoking indoors!! (and trying to hide it, for example). She seems to really be bothered by the smoking she thought was going on.

I guess I also questioned your overzealous gift-giving, but I am sure they weren’t well-intentioned and not meant as bribes. I have had a number of guests leave me chocolate or wine as a thank you, (upon check out) but the best gift they can give is a nice review. One guest traveling the world booked over Christmas and told me he was bringing me a goodie from Ecuador… It was a beautiful handmade hammock! And I also got a nice review from him, so win-win.

Also, I have to agree about hosts and guests getting TOO chummy too fast. It can lead to problems. If I feel a friendship coming on, I usually wait until the stay is over and then invite them to keep in touch. Most don’t. But one wonderful dearheart guest from Norway did and I am so glad for that. She will always be a friend.

I think the immigrants leaning on Reeny are taking advantage of her… and need to do their own research. Reeny, I also teach teenagers (I’m a sub) and like that approach! What are you going to do about it. Stops 'em cold I bet.

JustShoot, I think it sounds like your host did break the terms in her review and it may get removed. I think an OTT review like that deserves to get reviewed, and possibly pulled. Keep us posted.

Just my humble 2 cents.

[Reeny]

If I had a host acting that badly, I would just leave. I wouldn’t put up with it and I would contact Air, insist they help me find another place and when i got home, I would make a fuss about getting a refund. Life is just too short to put up with that kind of nonsense. Credit cards are there exactly for those kinds of emergencies.

Yes, Kona, I really did wonder why these people didn’t do their due diligence before they got here. Seemed absolutely ridiculous, but after I could feel their anxiety rubbing off on me, I kept it to the message system. It was a good reminder, though. Just because people want you to solve their problems for them doesn’t mean you have to.

When I hear a one-sided story that’s long on detail and short on solutions, and is published in what is, ultimately, an inappropriate place–I mean, we are all HOSTS here–I don’t think it’s wrong to wonder what the host’s side of the story is and to wonder at the intention of the poster.

In grad school, I had a sociology course and part of it required me to monitor a forum on sobriety (as in abstainers from alcohol). There were a couple of boozers who were also writers and they would show up and brag about how booze made them better writers, gave them more creative power, etc. They would show up on average about twice a week. I was only observing, but even as an observer, it made me angry and made me wonder…why on earth would these people come to a forum about not drinking to talk about how great drinking was? So I always question the intentions of people who do such contrarian things. I mean, I’m sure there are forums for every experience out there, so why go to one where you are subtly baiting others? There’s got to be some satisfaction had there, and my bet is that it’s not healthy, but that is my two cents.

[konacoconutz]

Reeny, I’m sending you a PM…

[Yana]

Hope they got the message that you are super busy.

[Reeny]

They did Yana, but I also made sure they got the information for the ethnic organization. They initially said they had relatives here, but either they were fibbing or those relatives didn’t want to help them. Otherwise why turn to a perfect stranger? It was a tough one, but also because the woman seemed to be in some real distress and of course, given my own ethnic background, which was close, I wanted to help.

[JustShootMe]

@konacoconutz

It was allowed outside on the patio, and I did have friends over who did smoke outside. I’ve mostly knocked it off.

Definitely, as to make a bedroom comforter smell you’d really have to work for it. I also can’t imagine any kind of smell remaining from a patio party after that much cleaning. Honestly, to a degree Reeny is right- we should have gotten out when we spotted red flags from that firs dropping stuff off interaction. But, had we done so of our own volition, air didn’t see it as serious enough to return a months worth of rent, which we would have forfeited. It was also the middle of december and everything I could see available cost a huge amount more than I’d budgeted.

LOL, if a gift was meant as a bribe it would definitely be a high- fail strategy. No, it’s meant to keep relations friendly, especially as I don’t share houses, just rent full size properties.

To be honest, the host was time poor and clearly had a lot of issues going on. I tried to assume the decent thing, that they were under pressure, and offer to take them out just to make it clear I was available and not a crazy person. I don’t think it’s too much to ask not to have your host wandering in and out moving furniture on a multi month rental.

If she had asked me, I would have said yes. But she didn’t, and at the time the room she wanted to move loads of things in and out of was the storage room for all my luggage, and my ebay sorting room, so there was my stuff everywhere.

Besides, amusingly enough the next door neighbour was a heavy smoker- lovely, but as it was a connected condo setup, I often smelled her smoking anyway. (Hilariously lovely woman in her 70’s, and also the hosts named checkout manager.)

I’ll keep you posted on how it goes. At this point, I’m more interested to see how air handles it.

[superhostnyc]

I look at guest reviews, and host reviews of guests, all the time. I’m am multi-listing host and this is my full time job. Sometimes it’s not what’s in the review, but the length of the review, that gives me pause. Someone who is so committed to making sure they address every single thing sets off an alarm in my head.

I think that having one mediocre/bad review among many won’t be the end of the world, as I would take that review with a grain of salt.

By the way, she may be exaggerating smoke smell, but as a smoker you may also be nose blind, as the smell most definitely wafts in from outside and absolutely can make an apartment and soft furnishings smell like smoke.

[JustShootMe]

@superhostnyc

Thanks for your thoughts- it’s relieving.

I know what you mean about noseblind, but I could definitely smell the neighbours smoke, and we did have a day’s worth of professional cleaning that included carpet steaming. So I can’t see it having stuck around.

Maybe I’m wrong, of course, but it was on the patio according to the rules.

I think a lot of the time it’s about communicating effectively. I shouldn’t have assumed the host would talk to her handover lady, and the host shouldn’t have assumed I wouldn’t have been receptive to talking about it, and hit me with a claim which we then responded too, which she then never put up a response herself, just reviewed me with a hammer.

Had she messaged me and said “hey guest, so that scratch on the couch really is an issue for me, can we work something out to get that fixed, and there’s some remaining smoke smell in the house- I need to bla bla bla, plus there’s some floor damage etc” the only part I would have questioned would be the floor. I would have worked it out with her.

But not speaking to me at all then hitting me with a 6k claim isn’t going to get a reaction from anyone that would make them want to fix it.

Air has already said they won’t pay out because no police report/not within the 48hr timeframe.
Her claim came in a full 8 days after we left, so for all I know she had guests in that time.

[AquaticQuests]

Reeny this is tiresome. You seem to have it in for JustShoot!
She posted the story. It was an eye opener for many hosts, myself included.
Perhaps you would rather the rest of us never got to read her story, and that it was never on the forum.
You’re entitled to your opinion.

I for one am glad she posted it.
I tend to come here to read about people’s experience and not get into big disagreements over things that I really shouldn’t, so I won’t go into a back and forth.
Just to say, I’m glad JustShoot posted her story!
It was enlightening!

[konacoconutz]

Curious… What part of the world are you in, JustShoot? I see you use Commonwealth spelling.

[JustShootMe]

@konacoconutz
I’m all over the world, all year! As I mentioned, 11 stays with air in 12 months last year, so at this stage I suppose I’m something of a mutt!

But I’m Aussie born, hence the spelling.

@Yana_Agapova @Bobas @AquaticQuests @superhostnyc

Just got a response from air, and there’s some interesting things to be learned from it, as hosts and guests.

Airbnb will do nothing about the review.

-Any party can mention the objects of a claim, damage, etc, as long as you don’t mention the claim itself. So you can leave a negative review for guests you’re currently in dispute with, as long as you don’t mention that it’s in dispute, or a refusal to pay out, etc.

-The content of the review does not have to be proven to be true- if the guest or host says something like “these people smoked” or “the property owners were nudists and it was uncomfortable” it’s not required that you have included that particular complaint in your claim.

-Air describes things said like this as “unfortunate”.
Checkout pictures and a cleaning receipt are also irrelevant. If your host or guest “simply mentions damages he/she believes were done”, it does not violate the community content guidelines.
As such, if your guest/host believes what they are saying to be true, it doesn’t really matter if it is or isn’t.

It isn’t stated explicitly, but one could extrapolate by genuine they either mean convincing, or that you do not believe you are lying.

Interesting, isn’t it?

-Your only recourse is to submit a review response, which they will encourage you to do, and consider the matter closed.

This experience makes it clear that Air sees no contradiction in allowing the review process to continue as planned even if a host and guest are in dispute and have not currently reached a resolution. So it’s clear that vengeful behaviour is not expected, or at the least they won’t touch it with a 10ft pole.

So, for example- say you refuse to refund a guest because they claim the shower isn’t hot enough and you need to pay for their discomfort. As long as they don’t mention that you refused them, they can basically say whatever they like about you as long as they don’t mention it.

I hope that information is of value to you to note.

I have no idea how to escalate it, or if I even can.

What I will be asking, is if what I have done is not enough (taken datestamped pictures and provided a receipt for cleaning) to protect me, then what standard of proof is.

Personally, at this point, all I want to know is what their actual policy is, so I can stick to it by the letter and not have the same thing happen in future. Because if there is no burden of proof as required by policy, then really, their guidelines aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, and your hosts or guests can do whatever they please. Which I think is worth knowing, for hosts and guests.

[Reeny]

Dear Aquatic and Kirsty,
I come here to get support for real issues. This is a pattern of posting that has happened before. It seems made up because who can have all these dramatic experiences.

Tiresome is in the eye of the beholder.

[Kirsty_Jane]

@Reeny

Not sure why you’ve involved me in this I haven’t really said anything.

The reason why this site does quite well is that its anonymous. I’m a member of the Airbnb Community groups as well but its quite clear there are actual Air employees hanging around on there too and because your linked to your listing on there I’ve read some really mean stuff members have said to others about there listing/s.

[Emily]

I agree it’s a profile ruining review to some extent. Can you put a reply & do you have at least 5 other top reviews? If so I would rent to you probably as I live in my apartment with the guests & some experience of nutters after living in the inner city for 40 years. She sounds like my sisters crazy neighbour that keep calling police on her all the time. I thought my sister was losing it until my mum & I stayed with her for the weekend & the police arrived saying she said my mum was trying to stab her (she saw my mum washing the dishes through her window) then the next day the fire brigade arrived to put out the ‘bush fire’, we were cooking 3 sausages on a BBQ. Some ppl are just a little highly strung, we helped my sister move the next weekend BTW, sometimes it’s best just to avoid drama. The host did mention that you were a nice guest in her review & offered her some nice gifts so it’s not all bad. Those of us with lots of experience would understand if this was a one off review I think?

[azreala]

All I saw was "Patio Party’ where they smoked and my host brain went bonkers!!!

I’m sure this host was insane, it happens, but I’m not super keen on that the guest was an innocent angel.

We all get crap reviews, it sucks, life goes on.

[mholidayoj]

Well I wouldn’t say that allowing a host into the property without 24 hour notice isnt an issue. I mean yah it’s Airbnb. But they did call you. But that rides the line and impacts the view of the property you rented plus or minus host contact. I rented from a man in Ventura who climbed into my lockless window in the bathroom and exited it as I came home. I found the tools and footprints in the bathtub and the window partially opened. And the landlord onsite. Had a propane leak and while I was in the middle of dinner with guests made us vacate the property so he could cut the floor and go under the house. I was told by a former tenant that he charged the occupant for a water main break that damaged all of his property. He was no way associated or was found to be associated with any main break and was sued. When these types of land owners become Airbnb hosts it doesn’t sound much different. I strive to be different but we have a lot of challenges as well. But yah the couch in my humble opinion could use an inch of duct tape and hang me for saying so.