Guests sneaked in one more unregistered person

21

I wonder how that ‘eviction’ would work here: Would it really happen?

I’ve read here that so long as it is a short-term rental tenant laws don’t apply. So the guest can be ejected at any time by the Host. How much time elapses between when I contact Airbnb to say I want to eject them. They tell the guest and it’s like the time between Sweden applies for NATO membership and membership is granted. What will Putin do in the meantime?

What if the guest says ‘No’? Would the police really force them out immediately? Do the police have bigger fish to fry than someone who broke my no smoking rule twice?

I’ve read that once guests see the police they back down. Maybe. But what if they don’t? What if they say that . . . their spouse is sleeping and sick and that as soon as they can make other arrangements or he/she wakes they will leave? Or . . . fill in the blanks? What will the police really do? What will the guest do to my home in the meantime?

Even if I have @muddy’s time-stamped videos (which I’ve started doing – and there’s a learning curve) will it be in sufficient detail throughout my whole home to capture the damage, maybe subtle damage (think cement in the plumbing) a malicious guest could do behind closed doors if they’re given an hour, a few hours, a day to leave? Will the police stay in the home to watch them as they pack up?

I simply don’t know and I don’t have the criminal mind (God knows I’ve tried) to imagine what someone could do or be willing to risk. The deal with Airbnb is that they could take the security deposit, which is just $500 for our bookings. $500. LOL.

Even if I could sue, let’s be real. Attorney fees are not recoverable and it would be a big number and take years. The guest could be judgment proof. I don’t even know if I really know their true legal name! [My rules say “Guests agrees that Airbnb will release their address and all and any information in its possession relating to the identity of the guests in the event of a dispute.” Is it enforceable? I don’t know.]

Civil remedies are not really remedies. Even if they have deep pockets you typically recover damages LESS your legal fees and costs. Your time and stress you don’t get back. [BTW, my rules say guest agrees that I do get attorney fees and costs. But is that enforceable? I don’t know.] If the guest created damage that was not immediately apparent they could easily escape criminal prosecution. And if they were criminally prosecuted that still doesn’t compensate me.

So it seems to me this is all about: 1) prevention in the form of vetting in forms we’ve discussed in this forum, and 2) deterrence in the form of fines and sanctions, and rules that show that we mean business, so that they should look elsewhere for an easier mark, and higher prices that attract people who are less likely to be criminals and who are more likely to have something to lose, 3) rules and communications that give us some clout with Airbnb but also in legal venues should it come to that AND, most finally, 4) a really good commercial insurance policy.

So maybe the threat of ‘eviction’ IS part of that effective deterrence. But I think hefty fines might also deter. Maybe take a belt and suspenders approach and impose fines and ‘eviction’ for the violation of certain rules?

Just sayin’.

2 Likes
22

Police here would call it a “domestic dispute” and refer it to the courts. I can understand that because it’s not their job to assess the details of the arrangement between hosts and guests and they’re not qualified to do so. If the guest were doing something obviously illegal (illegal immigrants, selling drugs or something) that’s a different story. Otherwise, it’s not their business. But we wouldn’t likely allow that type anyway, unless the guest totally misrepresented their identity and their intent.

In terms of long vs. short stays, in terms of the law, over 30 days can become legally difficult to evict. We have a 28 day maximum. We will consider longer stays, but only with an ironclad locally crafted legal contract, and substantial vetting of the guest.

There is something to be said for stating a policy to the guest which clearly defines penalties for violation of any house rules. Most “dubious” guests aren’t really “pros”. They’re just trying to sneak something for free or get away with something, but they’re often clueless that the host is actually a “pro” and sees them coming. So, one way to scare them off is to state and impose some kind of undesirable restriction or even a massive security deposit, to clarify that you’re not gullible.

Most house rules are unenforceable, but the average bottom feeder doesn’t know that. There are, however, a few who know how to play… So, better to just reject anyone who appears fishy.

1 Like
23

YOU manage the guest. It’s your property. AirBnB is the booking platform. If you need to evict someone, you message them through the AirBnB platform what you are doing and why, then go to your house or send someone else and tell them to leave and wait until they do. Use common sense, though. If you have legitimate reason to fear for your safety (drug dealers, etc), involve the police.

But @Islacat is right - just the possibility of being evicted without refund (or a huge penalty) is usually enough to scare off most of the bad actors.

5 Likes
24

And if they say ‘No’ and close the door, then what? Do I enter? Does it get physical?

25

I don’t know what jurisdiction you’re in, but in my state the loser pays the winner’s customary and reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs in civil suits, unless the court declares the plaintiff is a “public interest litigant”.

26

I’m in the U.S., Massachusetts. That’s not the law anywhere in the U.S. to my knowledge.

27

As far as I know it’s true in every state but Louisiana (which has laws based on Napoleonic Code) the loser of a civil suit pays the winner’s legal costs, as well as the amount in judgement. There are ways to collect on judgements, including garnishing wages and, if you know where they bank, attaching bank accounts or other assets like a vehicle or business equipment, once you get a writ from the court for enforcement of the judgement.

But I am not a lawyer, and neither are you, so what I said above is only my personal opinion based on being a rental property manager for up to 1600 units for 3 years.

And when one of our employees didn’t properly serve a notice, we lost a landlord-tenant case and paid the tenant’s legal fees and court costs, and were stuck with them for another 30 days after we properly served the notice.

28

It really is not true that the loser of a civil suit pays the winner’s legal costs in the U.S. I don’t know about Louisiana.

Garnishing wages is permitted for only certain kinds of judgments.

I am a retired lawyer, though I never practiced as a lawyer.

29

It is if they sign a lease where they agree to be liable for all costs of an eviction action, including legal fees. I appeared, along with my employer’s attorney, in court numerous times and we were always awarded court costs and legal fees. In Alaska we could garnish wages but the IRS, child support, and jail fines and fees have legal priority. This is why we began checking court records — anyone with unpaid judgements or a repeated criminal history up to present time wasn’t a desirable tenant for us.

How long ago was law school?

30

Well, of course, if they agree to pay the attorney costs that is different.

Law school was 40+ years ago but it presumably has not changed that someone can agree to pay legal fees and that would be enforceable. That is why I have written that in my STR rental agreement. But because it is not a signed agreement I don’t know if it is enforceable.

31

That’s easy to fix. Require a personalized contract that they have to sign. We use DocuSign and it’s quick and easy. I don’t bother with it on ABB because the CS agents will override it anyway, but all my VRBO and direct guests have to sign it within 48 hours of booking.

32

Yes, I know that a personalized signed contract would be the legal fix, though I didn’t know that CS agents would or could over-ride it. I don’t do it only because I’m concerned that it is not a typical practice in our area and might discourage bookings.

33

So I guess you have not read all the posts on the forums of CS reps overriding house rules, giving refunds out like candy, etc?

They may override your contract but then you take the guest to court basis your contract.

Yep, it might. And most owners I know that have larger properties think they dodge a bullet when a guest goes away because they don’t want to sign a contract. I know I do!

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34

Can we ask guests sign contract on Airbnb?

35

Yes, you may require AirBnB guests to sign your own contract. But it has to be in your house rules that they have to sign a contract.

1 Like