Guests has visitors (against house rules)

They did though. We clearly state we charge for the cost of propane used, and they used it without paying for it. I don’t see how that’s not stealing. They used it, and now it’s gone and I have to pay to refill it.

We don’t tack $50 a day because guests can also use the same propane to heat our pool if they choose (which could run up to $200 per day based on season). We can’t tack on $200 per night and still get bookings. Also, if the guests were to leave our spa on all day and night during their stay, they could easily run through a few $$ and we don’t have a way to know when they’re turning it on and off and there’s no timer limiter.

This wasn’t all of my claim - the claim also include 4 extra guests (to avoid our extra fees), a damaged towel (wine stain), and a scorched pan.

The point is, we require a deposit for our propane, I requested it from the guest before check in and they didn’t accept it. They chose to break into our pool system and use it anyway (we typically provide a remote for guests who provide the deposit).

Well they should pay for that then because they weren’t allowed to use the spa because they didn’t pay the propane deposit. That might be easier to understand if you did a head charge or per hour charge for the spa. The propane part is going to be hard to substantiate unless you’ve installed a gas meter inline with your tank and have hourly load profile data. Or unless you have some record of a full tank refill before they checked in and a record of how much had to be added after they left. You might want to look into metering your propane if you actually want to charge for it. For the record, I’ve definitely paid towel fees and spa usage fees at Airbnb’s so nothing unreasonable there.

The extra guests and towels, normal stuff and the guests should be charged and pay for that.

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This is where I’m having a major problem. I understand it’s only $50, but its the principal of the whole situation. It’s really no different than someone coming and walking away with a BBQ grill propane tank. The propane tracking is actually really easy. Our propane is ONLY hooked up to our pool and spa heater (rest of the house runs on electricity). So if anything was used, it was explicitly a guest heating the spa/pool. We take photos of the gauge in between each guest stay (as we did with in this case). Anything used during a stay is charged at the exact cost (actually slightly less, since we have to pay a service charge for the refills). We’re not trying to make money. But the exact issue I’m in now is why we collect the deposit - it’s sometimes impossible to get them to pay afterwards! Trust me, I’d much rather have a better solution here as I don’t like tracking everything and having to worry about deposits, but I haven’t come across it yet. Perhaps once we have more momentum on this house I’ll just raise the rates a little and cover up to $X and look at charging a flat fee for the pool heater.

I’ve learned my lesson though (first-time pool owner and this was our first guest at this house): I lock up the pool remote until the guest has settled the deposit. At that point I give them the code to unlock the little box it’s in. I also put a lock on our pool service panel. So NOW, it’s at least impossible for anyone to use without us knowing about it!

The extra guests aren’t for the spa, it’s for our whole house. We sleep up to 7, with an extra fee for the 7th guest. The guest booked 3 and 7 showed up. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but since ABB won’t let us charge extra cleaning, I feel like they should at least have to pay out based on our house rules. In this case, we were only trying to collect for the 7th guest, not all 4 extra guests.

If you really want to charge based on gas usage, the gas gauge isn’t revenue grade metering. Thats only meant to give you an approximate idea of how much gas is left. I found an Itron gas meter on ebay right now with a starting bid of $20. You’d just need some fittings for it and you could start accurately metering your propane usage. People are going to question your pictures of the gas gauge occasionally otherwise. Just my 2 cents. Otherwise my suggestion would be to use online prepaid gas but you’d still need a meter to do that. You’d have a portal where guests can login and put money on the meter with a credit card. Then have it shut off when they’ve used up their gas they paid for. There’s also such a thing as a coin operated gas meter if you wanted to go that route.

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Ah interesting, thanks for the heads up. I’ll see how it goes. I send guest the photo right before they check in and tell them they can confirm on the tank if they want to. I got this idea from our propane provider, stating that that’s what other short-term rentals are doing in my area.

I like the idea of a true gas meter though - thanks for that idea!

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Sounds like an after party, and quite frankly a rather pleasant one at that. My inner rock and roller would take offence to not being invited.

I would not have let them check-in if they had not complied with this House Rule. Why did you let them in without accepting it?

No one is required to heat the spa. If someone doesn’t want to I don’t take a deposit (and I lock up the remote that would allow them to turn it on). What I didn’t know, was that people are ballsy enough to go into our pool service panel!

What kind of system do you have? I am looking into installing one for my whole home rental.
Thank you for any info

We use alarm.com products (monitored by Alert 360 at one house and Brinks at the other). We also integrate a Nest thermostat at one house and use the alarm.com thermostats at the other (which allows us to set rules around turning off the AC when doors and windows are left open).

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I guess you have learned you have to lock up everything, then. And take pics of it locked.

Interesting! Found the alarm thermostats on eBay for about $100 (Which is much less than the nest ones I already bought). I thought I could IFTTT worth my August Smart Locks but no luck. Maybe this is a good solution.

Brilliant Thank you. I definitely could use something like this.

Do you have a deposit?
Airbnb is supposed to be able to charge against the deposit, since the guest has already authorized that.

It’s ridiculous to think a guest can just not respond - “la la la - I can’t hear you!”:hear_no_evil: as a way to escape damage charges.

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Man’s best friend right here.

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Yes! I actually have it set really high ($2000 - only because our house could easily be used as a wedding venue so it’s to discourage that). But get this, they’re telling me that since they can’t get a hold of the guest they can’t charge them! “We can’t force them to pay” I’m honestly completely at a loss - it makes no sense to me. It tells me that the “security deposit” doesn’t actually mean anything. It’s been escalated to a “higher department” but no further word yet.

I know – I only wish there was a system that could do this AND monitor for movement. In our house that has the door/window open rules, guests will naturally turn down the AC as low as it will go (70 F) and then leave all day, even when it can be 100 degrees outside. But then with Nest you don’t have the option of integrating window and door sensors (at least not yet).

I use Ecobee and it has smart away so it knows to go into “away” mode when nobody is home. I use contact sensors on the windows and it sends an alert to my phone through iSmart Alarm but that isn’t integrated into the Ecobee. It could be though because it has IFTTT integration.

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What’s the point of a deposit if they won’t unilaterally make the decision to charge against it?

I’m pissed on your behalf!

This is when I knock the CS agent over the head with their own TOS. I did some legwork on your behalf. Go get 'em…

In the TOS:

8.1.1 Subject to meeting any requirements (such as completing any verification processes) set by Airbnb and/or the Host, you can book a Listing available on the Airbnb Platform by following the respective booking process. All applicable fees, including the Listing Fee, Security Deposit (if applicable), Guest Fee and any applicable Taxes (collectively, “ Total Fees ”) will be presented to you prior to booking a Listing. You agree to pay the Total Fees for any booking requested in connection with your Airbnb Account.

The bolding is my own, but the TOS clearly state that the guest is accepting the possibility of total charges which include the Security Deposit.

And in a later section describing the process:

11.2 If a Host claims and provides evidence that you as a Guest have damaged an Accommodation or any personal or other property at an Accommodation (" Damage Claim "), the Host can seek payment from you through the Resolution Center. If a Host escalates a Damage Claim to Airbnb, you will be given an opportunity to respond. If you agree to pay the Host, or Airbnb determines in its sole discretion that you are responsible for the Damage Claim, Airbnb via Airbnb Payments will, after the end of your stay, collect any such sums from you and/or against the Security Deposit (if applicable) required to cover the Damage Claim pursuant to the Payments Terms. Airbnb also reserves the right to otherwise collect payment from you and pursue any remedies available to Airbnb in this regard in situations in which you are responsible for a Damage Claim, including, but not limited to, in relation to any payment requests made by Hosts under the Airbnb Host Guarantee or Japan Host Insurance.

And again in the payment terms linked in the last paragraph…where the guest either agrees OR AIRBNB unilaterally decides in favor of the host claim:

11.1 If you as a Guest (i) agree to pay the Host in connection with a Damage Claim, or (ii) Airbnb determines that you are responsible for damaging an Accommodation or any personal or other property located at an Accommodation pursuant to the Airbnb Terms, you authorize Airbnb Payments to charge the Payment Method used to make the booking in order to collect any Security Deposit associated with the Listing, as well as any amount of the Damage Claim exceeding any Security Deposit. If the Listing does not have a Security Deposit, Airbnb Payments may charge the Payment Method used to make the booking for the amount of the Damage Claim. If we are unable to collect from your Payment Method used to make the booking, you agree that Airbnb Payments may charge any other Payment Method on file (and not otherwise unauthorized) in your Airbnb Account at the time of the Damage Claim.

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OMG YOU ARE MY FAVORITE PERSON!!! I was just going to wait and see what the “other department” could do, but YES! I’m totally going to throw this at them. Thank you!!!