This forum is dedicated to connecting hosts with other hosts. Sign up to get the latest updates and news just for AirBnb hosts! Note that we are not affiliated with Airbnb - we are just passionate hosts!
“it not personal, it’s just business” it one of my most hated sayings of all time. Had that used on me once when a real estate agent cancelled our lease and forced us to close down our shop, it felt pretty damn personal to me!
It’s just an excuse to behave without morals or consideration for others, to only consider profit. Don’t get me wrong, I love profit too, and i’m not one of those “#gratitude matters” types either, but something is off by calling profiting off the misfortune of others ‘earnings’.
What always inevitably gets missed in this oft-repeated conversation is that the service which is provided is the reservation in and of itself. Holding a reservation and planning around it is the service.
We all know for sure that it is indeed a service to hold a reservation, to prepare for it and to remain available for it. That is the service. It is in fact the most important service that a host can provide. Without that service, there are no guests because they can’t rely on the reservations they make, so then there are no hosts and then there is no Airbnb.
Airbnb knows that a host keeping a reservation is the most important service and that is why hosts are penalized for canceling reservations. And we all know that it is the most important service because we don’t abide by hosts who cancel on their guests. Hosts who cancel on guests are So then hosts who don’t cancel on guests (i.e. keep their reservations) are providing a friggin service.
Cancelation policies are inherently punitive. That is the whole point of a cancelation policy (penalty). The guest must have some skin in the game, a commitment, that they don’t want to lose or they could just make reservations willy-nilly and then no one could run their business. They could make 10 reservations at 10 different places 10 months ahead of time and then just cancel the 9 of them the day that the stay would’ve begun, leaving 9 or even possibly 10 hosts without a reservation (e.g. business) at the last minute.
Anyone who feels that a cancelation by a guest shouldn’t be punitive can and should use the Flexible cancelation policy because it allows guests to cancel 24 hours before check-in without any penalty. Or as Airbnb couches it: Guests can cancel until 24 hours before check-in for a full refund, and you won’t be paid
Anyone who isn’t using the Flexible policy is either intending to be punitive or at least threatening to be punitive. There isn’t a difference.
We have a huge annual floral Festival and for 3 years in a row I have had the same weekend booked by the guests as a direct booking. For the 3 years she has cancelled every time.
No problem as I know I will get booked.
This year “her “ weekend is already taken by a longer booking.
OMG the childish hissy fit she threw about the dates being unavailable.
“ I wasn’t being fair”
I asked her for the copy of the email that she sent reserving the weekend for 2022.: I was told that I should have known she wanted the dates.
Lady - 3 years of cancellations of her booking and she thinks I am going to risk it?
Her email address is now blocked……
What I find most interesting in this at-least-once-a-month-conversation is that it’s always only women who are saying this Meanwhile men are running their businesses. I think we know quite clearly why our daughters and female friends are making less than their male counterparts in. the. same. job. It’s madness learned from the 50s and 60s and it needs to stop. (being. passed.down.)
What personally pisses me off with this situation is that now when a guest cancels they immediately send a message, “you’re supposed to try to rebook and then refund me.” Hey, that’s not my job man.
That’s not the cancelation policy we both agreed to (the one I kept but you didn’t). I kept your reservation. I bought fruit, flowers, beer, wine and half & half. And now you’re not going to show up and that is absofuckinglutely not my problem.
It’s 2 days before your arrival and you get 50% back. I’m only getting 50% too. That’s obviously not enough money for me to rebook your dates for you. You broke our contract and don’t want to pay but you want me to work for free for you? Nah. I was raised by a woman who told me not to put up with that
I really should pop down and take some photos, i’m only living on the Gold Coast til the end of the year. Is the festival week peak blooming or is either side good too?
Oh, please- you are really going to portray me as some weak woman who doesn’t know how to value herself and her business and who takes s**t from others, because I would offer to refund a guest who cancelled, if I got fully paid for the cancelled dates by a replacement booking?
You seem to have missed the post that I and Gillian were responding to in some zeal to defend “business” over personal ethics. The subject was referring to getting paid, in full, twice for the same dates, not about refunding a guest cancelling 2 days before check-in.
And just because you think no male host would ever do such a thing (which I doubt), that means it’s an attitude to emulate?
I want the best room, on the best day, with a 0hour cancellation policy
I haven’t seen your listing but if you need new photos (I’m a professional photographer) i’d be happy to do a trade (monday/midweek slow day, and i always avoid any tourist/crowded days just as a life motto). I’ll need to check if we can fly drones in the area. I’ll look into it! i’m moving back to SA in December so kinda keen to explore a little more (last year was write off due to borders).
yes, i had formulated a post along these lines and then sorta gave up to instead discuss Jacaranda festival…
but ok, let’s resume @JJD (and 100% of the time i’ve agreed and loved your posts),
You are 100% right, women get paid less because they are more agreeable, i’m not going to start behaving like a man [insert various adjectives here sure to offend] and then say stuff like “nothing personal, it’s just business”. Happy to remain a strong woman and think of others instead of myself.
I HATE it when airlines and hotels do it, and it does not make me a loyal customer who praises the brand. In fact quite the opposite, and I tell my friends how bad they are too. So that’s one reason why not to do it. Business school also teaches that when you issue a refund it’s an excellent opportunity to gain a customer for life.
I think some people are thinking of the worst guest they’ve had, who wasted so much time on the reservation, and then lied to cancel, and then demanded a refund. Sure, they can get bent, keep their money if you like. But other guests, nice people who are no trouble but then something unexpected happens and they cancel 5 days out, I will treat them with compassion, as I would like to be treated by a host in the same situation. @JJD your example explains this and in that situation you described I absolutely agree with you. I think we have more common ground here.
I am not saying i just bend over and issue refunds, where I feel that compassion and understanding warrants it, I will issue a refund. I have kept money in the past from cancelled guests. what I don’t do is gloat about it, because I still feel bad that someone has forfeited money and didn’t get to stay with us.
An Interesting and valid point that JJD makes here. I tend to agree.
Okay so my situation here is a bit different from cancelling two days before, as he has cancelled three weeks before. It is true that I probably will get rebooked in that time. But I don’t see it as unethical because he took a few hours of my time, and it is only £120. I could give him the £120, then those hours have been worked for free. We exchanged 33 messages, and he was experiencing problems making a third booking he wanted, so I had to answer messages about that and try and help him work out the issue. I then had to call Airbnb to ask why he was being blocked from making that third booking. THEN I got back to him only to learn that he no longer needed the third booking - zero acknowedglement that he had asked me help him with that in the first place. Then messages asking how many mins to get here and there. So I would go to google directions and report back to him. I can remember what I was doing when I was getting those messages, esepcially the ones where he couldn’t make the third booking. The messages were interrupting what I was doing, which is not a problem for actual guests. But it is annoying to expect to give that all for free. We already do a lot extra for our actual guests and answer enough questions form people who don’t get back/ book. That is part of the business. To now be expected to step outside of the cancellation policy we chose so that a non-guest can save money, while I have meanwhile wasted my time, doesn’t sit great with me. I admit too that I am worried about being nice and ethical etc, which is why I came here for advise. I am still torn.
Update - guest has messaged me again saying ‘I think I must have read it wrong. It says free cancellation 48 hours. I thought that meant free cancellation 48 hours before arrival’. Is this true? Is that how Air puts it? Just ‘free cancellation 48 hours’? Because it should definitely be clearer - they need to use words like ‘up to’ and/ or ‘within’.
I agree with what was said in another message, if hosts want to be flexible then they can pick a more flexible option. This would likely move your listing up in the search, and we could then actualy enjoy some benefits from choosing to be flexible.
In the meantime, I wish strict cancellation was non negotiable except in proper emergencies. Which hopefully soon people will also have covered by their Airbnb insurance
sure, i guess in this situation you spent a lot of time on this weirdo.
but you took that money off him and he got nothing in return.
I’ve had a guest today who has asked me how far we are from local restaurants, he’s a foodie, so I sent him my reccos (I have it saved in a quick reply so it was 1min of work), then he wanted to know if he can early check in (like 11am! lol), so i’ve answered that too, another few minutes. btw, he can’t instant book, he has 3 reviews and one host gave him 3* and said how messy he was. (we dont’ have a kitchen and he’s talking about eating out so i’m less concerned). but yes, he’s a concern, and i’ve spent more time on him than a regular guest, some guests I spend 0 seconds on, swings and roundabouts. Some guests use lots of coffee pods, some use none. same.
however, your guest now asking about the cancellation period and being unable to understand how it works is a red flag. It’s not obscure, but guests read it how they want it to be. When i started out i offered the “soft” policy of giving a 10% discount if they agreed to no cancellations allowed. I call this soft because that’s what guests thought I was. So many guests who booked this still wanted to cancel, and it was getting uncomfortable to have to say “uh no dude, you got a discount in exchange for this policy”. We are talking a bit about ethics here, well these types of guests have none either. So to avoid the whole situation, i stopped offering that option.
I wish ABB didn’t decide to override these policies and still ask us if we’d issue refunds, minus their fee which they always keep. nothing personal, just business
I made 10.000 usd on 2 cancelations this year, I then got it rebooked also, 0 regrets given, both guest had some sad story sick husband, dying family member, and harassing me for refund non stop.
One of them booked another property near me same dates-saw from the review later, the other went to Thailand instead of Bali, I saw from her instagram.
So how do you recognize a valid cancelation when everyone tries to lie, even if its valid I will not spend 5 seconds considering it.
He’s throwing everything he can think of at you to get a refund. The policy says “To receive a full refund, guests must cancel within 48 hours of booking, and the cancellation must occur at least 14 days before check-in” That’s pretty clear to me that it is not 48 hours prior to arrival.
I have never had a guest who has mailed me money to soften the blow of losing a booking; I always have guests who ask ME to do the same.
I have the strict policy with a 10% ‘discount’ for non refunding. Of course, I get ‘sob stories’ when a guest decides that they want refunds. However, I never give ‘refunds’ if I ‘rebook’. While to some it appears as though I do little to ‘earn’ the cancelled money, in reality spread out over every booking is a lot of work and I do not feel I should ‘give back’. Sometimes I get rebooked instantly; sometimes those days lay empty. In the end, I resent a guest who decides to take 10% discount, abuses my schedule, and then expects me to hand them their money back because I am afraid of karmic negativity.
Airlines and events (like concerts or sports events) do not offer refunds where they clearly have an agreement with the guest. Every night I book has value - every minute I spend with a guest before during and after booking has value as well. Losing days on my schedule would not prompt guests who cancel to offer me all the money for the days ‘for karma’…
I 100% agree. and that’s why I stopped doing that method because I felt it somehow brought out the worst behaviour in people.
and you are free to dismiss “karma” as suits you, but you misunderstand karma actually.
you are long-lived enough to know that, so i wont’ elaborate.
I didn’t say any of those things. And I didn’t intend to make you feel that I did either.
This is not an uncommon conversation. It’s not even an uncommon doctoral thesis at this point.
When I was reading all of this last night it just really struck me that it at least seems like it’s only female hosts that feel like they somehow owe it to guests to not have any boundaries and to do extra work for free so that the guest doesn’t have any repercussions for the deal they made.
A cancelation policy is a contract. And it’s absolutely fine if you don’t want to uphold the contract. That’s your choice and I support it. But that doesn’t mean that it’s okay for you to say that someone who does uphold a contract is somehow immoral or unethical.
Rebooking is additional work. And for many hosts, it is also additional risk. It is also very inconvenient. If you want to do extra work, take on additional risk (if it applies to you, I don’t know) and be inconvenienced without getting paid something for it, then that’s your choice and I support it. But it’s not okay for you to say that anyone who wants to be paid for doing additional work, taking on additional risk and being inconvenienced is somehow immoral or unethical.
I just think that making it about morals and ethics is just taking it too far.
The implication is that someone is not a good person if they are inflexible with their boundaries, if they insist on other people sticking to a deal, if they want to get paid for all of the work they do or if they want to run a business to maximize profit.
Historically when men have worked to these standards they have been called “successful businessmen” at the very same time that women with these same exact standards were called “bitches.”
There are so many things that we can each do to run our businesses in a moral and ethical manner but not-being-a-bitch isn’t one of them.
These days it’s a choice that everyone can freely make for themselves without having to worry about whether or not other people are going to think that they are a good person or a bad person.
This is a really interesting discussion. Something in me agrees with each post I read.
I’ve been considering what to do as a host, as well.
I use several booking sites as well as direct booking (I prefer direct bookings)
cancellation policies for each booking site is different
none of the booking sites offer policies quite the way I’d ideally like them
I always consider how fair I would find it if the tables were turned and I were the guest
I have worked out alternatives for various guests based on the circumstances.
Last year I took an 8-day booking over a year in advance and they were flying in. Because it was a direct booking, they paid 25% in advance and the balance was due 6 weeks prior, at which time they cancelled instead of paying. For direct bookings we offer a refund if the time is rebooked. Well, we got a booking for a portion of their time so I refunded that portion of their deposit, but later realized that they should have paid the balance on everything that wasn’t rebooked, so they actually owed me, not the other way around. duh! Time for a rethink.
Because we offer a large home at a destination place, planning for vacations rarely happens on short notice. So I changed our own policies to 50% down and the balance 8 weeks prior.
On another booking cancellation (with a reasonable excuse) I refunded 25% and 75% in credit toward a stay before November 15th. I’m counting down the days. The house sat empty over Christmas.
Airbnb’s strict policy really isn’t ideal and is more lenient than direct. Someone could cancel and get a partial refund even if the house is NOT rebooked. I take that risk of holding the house for their arrival through the busy booking periods, and them not completing their booking.
I’ve privately told Air guests that I’ll refund my portion if the house is rebooked. But they already get a more lenient booking policy and I take more risk through Air - so I’m considering only offering a “refund on rebooking” for direct-booked guests. Not that it will be my final decision based on circumstances, but it will be my first response.
This is really a very insightful comment, an ‘aha’ to me.
Yes, the service really IS the reservation. There really IS a lot of effort and planning made to make sure that the property is truly available and ready for the guest. In ‘finance’ theory it would be called the ‘option value.’
Again, an incisive point I had not considered.
Many Hosts – for our property too – have refunded when we’ve rebooked the canceled dates feeling it was the ‘right thing to do’ for ourselves (without saying that others are ethically obligated to do the same),@JJD’s reasoning is making me re-think what our policy will be going forward.
We often say here that things balance out. That when something is damaged or an Airbnb policy works against us for us to look at the whole picture. Well, part of that whole picture is that some bookings will get canceled, the Host will be able to rebook and will have the opportunity to keep that money from the cancelation. Just as some bookings will get canceled outside of the window that enables the Host to keep any portion of the reservation and will not be able to book the property, having lost the opportunity to have the property on the market for a significant amount of time.
So then hosts who don’t cancel on guests (i.e. keep their reservations) are providing a friggin service.
Happy to remain a strong woman and think of others instead of myself.