@Alia_Gee, people will believe what they want to believe. It seems that people everywhere, including this forum, have preconceived notions about who people are, what they represent, and what they believe in without taking the time and effort to actually find out.
Folks can argue about the effects of Airbnb and its ilk on NYC, but it is a fact that the MDL made illegal Short Term Rentals in Class A building since the 1920s. I work in a law firm and I could even get a copy of the original code off of microfiche if you insist, but that’s a fact. The same principals already present in the MDL were strengthened with subsequent laws adding language about permanent residents and advertising. If you live in a Class A, multiple dwelling of more than three apartments and you rent short term you were always breaking the law.
So don’t insist that you were somehow blindsided by an evil hotel industry and you’re just fighting to maintain your business. Fight to change the law, but all means. But stick to the facts.
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Please excuse me for chipping in, but I believe this is just what Airbnb was supposed to be all about. I live 24/7 in my apartment, and I use a room in my home as a STR on Airbnb and other sites. No renting a room if I’m not present.
I learned the hard way that if you do it any other way, you do get into a lot of trouble with neighbours. Oh, by the way, I do sometimes go out, to do some shopping etc. So I don’t actually stay in my apartment 24/7. But you get the idea.
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@Eberhard_Blocher, Thanks for your comment. I completely agree with you!
However, there is a gray area between renting a room in your home, and renting a separate, detached ,unoccupied apartment/home. As I mentioned, the people who are getting fined and pulled into court DO live in their home, but often it is an attached, two-family home. They live in one home (24/7), literally attached and adjacent to the one they use for STR. Yet they are being treated as if they are remote hosts! So, I agree with you, a remote host may have issues because of their geographical distance. However, these hosts are basically “on premises”, quite similar to a host that rents a room in their own home.
FYI, as an aside, NOT related to the answer above, I suspect that a considerable number of hosts, even here, rent homes, unattached, from where they reside 24/7 (@GutHend, perhaps one of your fabulous surveys can help?). Understandably, every area has their own rules, but it’s difficult (and in my opinion, unfair) that one person is allowed to do as they please, while another is prohibited from doing the same as an OWNER of a home.
As I said, I do support your point of view.
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@JonYork, the whole “blanket law” IS absurd. I live in my home, and rent a floor separate, but in the same building, and live there 24/7, that is just 9 feet away (vertically). Should every host be treated the same that isn’t a “room” in their home? I think not. I’ve mentioned this several times, but it seems people choose what they wish to focus on. Aren’t we a community trying support one another?
Why is it easy for people who don’t even live on-premises to criticize those of us who do live in a much more stringent area? Yes, there are laws, but they may not be just. And, those who criticize are often doing the precise same thing in a region that allows this.
Having been a native New Yorker, growing up in a lower-middle class family, I don’t need to be lectured on affordable housing. I’ve likely advocated, and lived it, “likely” more than any other member of this forum.
@JonYork, my rant(-ish) is certainly not directed to you. You and I certainly seem to agree 100% on this!
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Airbnb refuses to release any list of hosts…citing privacy. At least that is the case in Nashville where we now have 5,000 legal rentals and over 1,000 estimated illegal. The usuping ofaffordable rentals is a real thing here.
Airbnb came in and lobbed our state legislature asNashville was trying to rein-in the corporate hosts by requiring host residency + one other rental in order to be licensed. It is still up in theair.
Now Abnb is collecting the state tax and remitting in a lump sum rather than identifying the actual taxpayer/host.
Airbnb did hand over host data in NYC in 2014. The legal battle in NYC is likely very different than Nashville. Since Short Term Rentals of less than 30 days have been illegal in Class A buildings since the 1920s, the State Attorney General has more of a handhold.
Things have only gotten worse for Airbnb in NYC since 2014, though, as the sources in this thread document.
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Subsequent to the NYC anti-advertising law Airbnb tried to sue NY for violating their first amendment rights – I almost did a noser on that one – but they dropped the lawsuit.
In Hawaii, Airbnb has lobbied a number of times to collect our excise and accommodations tax. The state knows they are missing out on millions but they won’t let Airbnb do it unless they…
—hand over customer data,
—agree that they will be held liable for illegal rentals to the tune of $25,000 each,
— allow that their “illegal” (a status yet to be determined) customers could be charged with a class c felony, the same as identity theft, negligent homicide and domestic abuse and assault. So you could open an Air dashboard or you could knock the daylights out of your spouse. Same thing in the eyes of the law!
Needless to say, negotiations have reached an impasse here… again.
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I’m sure New Yorkers will have read/heard the story already but for others who might be following the New York issues a report was issued today by the comptroller’s office that says Airbnb is contributing to higher rents in the city. Airbnb is disputing the findings.
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@KKC. thanks for that link. I hadn’t read about it.
Let me put things into perspective; if we look at the HIGHEST % change in Manhattan:
Murray Hill, Gramercy & Stuyvesant Town:
The average monthly rent in 2009 was $1,887. In 2016, the monthly rent was $2,375.
If this report is 100% accurate (which I disagree it is), it indicates that the Airbnb “effect” increased the 2016 rent by $105/month.
So, the average apartment, instead of being $2,375/month, would be $2,270/month.
Would the rent be less w/o Airbnb, according to this report? YES.
Is this “affordable” housing? NO
Is there someone who can afford the $2,270/month, but cannot afford the $2,375/month? UNLIKELY.
There are many issues with this report, even indicated by the article:
Still, the report has limitations: An apartment listed on Airbnb does not always translate into a unit lost in the long-term rental market, because apartments may be rented for a short amount of time a year.
Once again, I am not suggesting that hosts who have multiple, whole-house apartments shouldn’t be shut down. But even this bombshell report highlights how minimally the impact of Airbnb is on actual rents. The example I used is the HIGHEST change in Manhattan. If you review the Airbnb effect in other neighborhoods (i.e. East Harlem has a $13 differential), you’ll see how little the impact actually is.
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The bottom line is this is bad publicity for Airbnb in NYC. Most people won’t deeply read and analyze. And even in non urban areas the news about Airbnb is uniformly negative. It’s about the party house or the people complaining about “outsiders.” Governments still haven’t caught up with the sharing economy and when they do it always means more regulation, not less.
I also think Airbnb’s move to be more like hotels, buying blocks of apartments for conversion and even allowing hotels to list on the site is bad as well. Instead of the brand being associated with home sharing, and individuals being free to use their property it’s going to be associated with landlords, property management and travel.
Maybe I’m being unduly negative but I don’t see things getting better or more lucrative for us hosts, I see movement towards more regulation. The same with my in home dog boarding. I’m a little surprised that after 5 years I’m still not regulated. No license, no local tax payment. I’ve already achieved all the goals I had when I started in the sharing economy 5 years ago, expecting the party to be over by now so maybe I don’t know much. LOL.
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I agree, @KKC. Any time there is even vaguely negative publicity about Airbnb, it hurts all of us hosts.
We have jumped the shark as our time as hosts. It will undoubtedly be a slide downward. The question is, how steep is the slope?
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Love the terminology but do not buy into it.
What is the sharing economy? People have been renting out homes or parts of homes since there were homes. Were Cavepersons part of the sharing economy?
As an aside the use of the term Community also amuses me. Meaningless.
True of any profession or part of the economy. My profession, education, is full of so much bs jargon that nothing else is going to get to me. Words should be to communicate and people know what falls under the “sharing economy” umbrella. I don’t care what it’s called.
Like lots of things it depends on the host. I’ve made friends with guests, I’ve made connections I still have after 3 years, I’ve gotten xmas cards from guests, I’ve been invited to stay with former guests at their home in other parts of the country if I visit, I’ve made business connections from Airbnb visitors. I consider that community, but if another host doesn’t make connections with his guests it doesn’t matter to me.
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Hello
You seem very knowledgeable about current law enforcement in NYC. I own a two family in which i reside and have been renting out one unit and living in the other. Today I got a summons and four violations. I am really scared as I have been totally dependent on this income. From everything Im reading it seems like there is nothing to fight, almost every scenario is illegal unless I was actually living in the rented out unit, (which the task force questioned my guests and confirmed I was not) Im at a loss, not sure what to say when I go to court - do I give up air bnb or is this still a grey area? Any advice is greatly appreciated
Thanks
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Do you have any knowledge of when it is not a multiple dwelling unit? I own a two family home i live in one unit and rent out the other unit. I received a summons today with a few violations but I am still confused as to weather these laws apply to me.
@ajna This is the organization that many hosts have joined, especially those that have recevied violations: I would contact them to see what kind of assistance they can provide:
There are ways to fight it, but the most important thing to do is DO NOT IGNORE IT. The fines go up tremendously if you don’t take action.
I will see if I can find the name of an attorney/advocate that has helped some others with their violations.
Hi Marty
Thank you so much. We have been in a panic since yesterday reading all types of info but still unclear weather we are legal or not
Multiple dwellings in NYC are three or more units.