American Ex pat hosts, I’m curious

[JJD]

@Helsi

funny thing is how many Westerners like to refer to themselves as ‘ex-pats’ when they want to immigrate to a country rather than use the term of being an immigrant.

@Notahost

Expats typically are foreigners who make a lifestyle choice to live in a foreign country on a term basis, immigrants are typically defined as someone moving to a foreign country for economic reasons and plans on becoming a citizen of that foreign country

@Helsi

westerners immigrating to a country for a better lifestyle/economic opportunity still refer to themselves as expats.

Well, it’s not just Westerners. It’s people of privilege from any country that consider themselves ex-pats. @Notahost you are only emphasizing that by referring to expats as making a lifestyle “choice”. Choice come from privilege. It’s really just a status that wealthy, privileged people assign themselves (which is the point that I believe Helsi was making) because they think of immigrants as people different than themselves. It’s just posturing.

Most often the line between an expat and an immigrant is the shade of skin. However, privilege and wealth ultimately draws that line. For instance, I work with Nigerian doctors that are “ex-pats” but with Mexican housekeeping staff and Brazilian cooks that are immigrants. Depending on who you ask, of course.

But they are all ex-pats and are all immigrants (and all emigrants too for that matter).

[muddy]

@Helsi

My point is westerners immigrating to a country for a better lifestyle/economic opportunity still refer to themselves as expats.

What I have found is that those who refer to themselves as ex-pats are those who emigrated for exactly the reasons you mention, plus climate. They seldom bother to learn the language past the basics, so their interactions with locals are limited to the superficial, they may embrace a lot of things about the culture, but never really understand it, and they pretty much live around and hang out with other ex-pats.

I’ve lived in Mexico for about 20 years, and refer to myself as a resident, which is my immigration status here.

“Immigrant” carries with it a concept of permanence. A lot of foreign residents and those who refer to themselves as ex-pats end up moving back to their home country as they get into their senior years, because of medical care and wanting to be closer to family, especially grandchildren.

[Notahost]

Definitely not my experience in Europe, Mexico may be a bit different with the closeness to USA and the desire of Mexican developers to give what they think Americans want which is America but in Mexico. Bit different in Europe, expats I’ve been with over the decades tend to embrace the local culture, learn the language.

[muddy]

Yes, I was thinking more of those who move to warm climates which tend to not be first world countries- Thailand, Mexico, Central America, etc.

While moving from North America or Australia, for instance, to Europe, may mean a different culture and language, it’s still first world, so less challenging to adjust to.

[JJD]

@muddy

They seldom bother to learn the language past the basics, so their interactions with locals are limited to the superficial, they may embrace a lot of things about the culture, but never really understand it, and they pretty much live around and hang out with other ex-pats.

That’s true of immigrants in general, not just immigrants that call themselves expats. People move to another country for lots of reasons, but I doubt that embracing a new culture is necessarily at the top of the list.

I do understand and relate to your value, but am just saying that it’s not everyone’s. It is not the the motivating factor for immigration, whether expat or not.

[Helsi]

Can’t agree that the immigrants (not expats) who move elsewhere in Europe embrace the local culture/language.

Why do you think Portugal, Itay, Spain, Greece, France, Brussels, Holland etc is littered with Irish/UK bars, restaurants and cafe’s?

It tends to be the more middle class immigrants who are more likely to embrace the culture but even then they tend to send their kids to British or international schools.

Many immigrants from the UK and Ireland to elsewhere in Europe make no efforts to learn the language, let alone embrace the culture sadly.

https://www.aplaceinthesun.com/articles/2013/12/do-uk-expats-embrace-the-culture-of-their-adopted-country