ABB and Homeaway Fined 600k by Barcelona

No. I imagine he’s had to change his business plan but I doubt he cares - his fortune is made !

Isn’t the legislation with permits new? I met him in Paris 2015 when he was telling me his rags to riches story …

Nope, I believe the permit system has ‘always’ been around, for at least 10 years. Certain areas of the city became overpopulated with tourists, think Las Ramblas area and the beach, so they stopped issuing permits in those areas in 2011/12. The city stopped issuing permits in the entire city in 2014

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Hmmm probably broke the law then. I’ll never know for sure though …

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Just to be clear… I was making a sarcastic joke about him not being legal, as in with 30 apartments there is no way any city would issue that many permits. :joy:

It would be pretty amazing if they did. But how do commercial organisations do it ? They must get the required permits no ?

What type of commercial organization are you referring to? Hotels and B&Bs are registered with their cities as commercial operators. So, my guess would be if this guy owned the entire building and STR’d the apartments within the building, then he could be commercial operator. IMHO.

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I’m saying that 30 residences doesn’t seem a crazy amount for a commercial operator so there
must be a way to get permits for 30?

Are these permits only available in certain conditions? Apologies maybe I’m missing the point …

Sorry, when did I say I was an expert??? I specifically said that I was only there for a week and specifically stated that if you lived there you would ‘obviously know better’ and that I was merely saying exactly what locals has stated to us at the places we visited. No need to be rude for me sharing my views and personal experiences geez

I think we are back to my original question…“What type of commercial organization are you referring to?”

I would find it highly highly doubtful that someone with 30 different STR apartments in any city would be operating within the cities laws. Someone that had 30 units in one building would be a commercial operator of a B&B/hotel and would be able to apply/obtain those kinds of permits.

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The host has 30 properties and you said he wasn’t legal. So I asked why he couldn’t be…because I can’t understand WHY he wouldn’t get the required licences.

I said I doubt he was legal bc I do not think Barcelona City Hall would give out 30 permits to one person without asking a LOT of questions. Also, given that at the height of tourist flats in BCN I believe less than 10% had permits, so its pretty likely he didn’t.

If someone has 30+ apartments they are definitely operating a commercial operation such as a hostel, hotel, proper B&B, which I believe would be out of the scope of what an STR permit is trying to accomplish.

The other thing this guy could be doing is managing the flats for other people, as well as managing his own. There are MANY MANY MANY did I mention MANY property management companies in Barcelona who essentially have there own websites and also list on all the major lettings websites.

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Ok but what’s unique about the permits that you can’t have 30? That’s why I asked because surely commercial operations also need to have these permits ?

Okay we are going around in circles… Please explain what you mean by a commercial operation.

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For me a commercial operation would be something done on a large scale. Is that not a standard understanding of ‘commercial’?

Are these permits only given to homeowners letting out one property? I’m trying to understand what’s unique about them that the guy I met was unlikely to have 30…

@azreala What are the requirements of a commercial enterprise vs. a ‘non-commercial’ ones, for lack of a better word. They pay a different tax, have to adhere to different standards? You bet someone with 30 units logically is no longer an ‘amateur’. :wink:

Interesting discussion btw.

@mearns this all started with me making a joke that there is no way someone in Barcelona has 30 touristic permits. Because I highly doubt City Hall would issue 30 permits to one person, since the permits are meant for ‘amateurs’ not ‘commercial operators’. This is just my two units of currency, knowing how much the city has been cracking down on touristic rentals since 2012ish. Unfortunately, no permits are currently being issued, so there is no way to put an definite end to this discussion, at least for BCN. Meaning there is no info available for me to ‘cite’ the differences.

I would take an educated guess that someone who was running a commercial type operation would need to be classified as a hotel, hostal, proper B&B, etc and yes pay different taxes, get different permits, have different safety standards, etc. I was looking at the Andalusia touristic rental website and they have a different permit process for people registering 2 units or more. However, I do not think Barcelona every had something like this, bc the city’s goal was not to have 30 housing units taking off the LTR markets, but instead legalise homeowners who rented out their own flat, or foreign owners who had second homes, etc.

I think this discussion is the root of the problem that ABB is having globally. People coming into major touristic cities, buying/renting 10+ flats/condos/houses and making them de facto hotel rooms. I personally do not care if someone wants to register or not, as long as they have come to terms with the repercussions. I am with @konacoconutz that it drives me nuts when people come on here asking how to skirt their cities regulations :imp:

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Since Az is an experienced host in Barcelona, I would trust 100 percent what she has to say on this matter. Everyone else is just speculating!

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Got cha. It is so interesting how things are changing, and yes behooves us all to stay abreast of developments. Keep us posted of ‘As the World Turns in Barcelona’.