Just curious why you feel an owner would equate to a more stable reservation than a renter? I manage HOAs and have seen some pretty nasty things done to renters by homeowners that are losing their homes. Airbnb being short-term rentals, I would imagine that it would depend upon the host more than ownership v rental.
What do you mean? When homeowners are losing their homes, everyone loses. Itâs incredibly stressful, but if you mean are they renting while still in foreclosure, itâs perfectly OK. Judicial foreclosures especially can take months or even years. The house belongs to you until they officially take it away. As a tenant you do have the right to stay at least 90 days longer before they can lock you out. At least here in Hawaii.
There should be no reason to reiterate the many many reasons why owners are more stable than renters for doing Air?
Unless you are doing it with the EXPRESS written permission of your landlord, you are on a slippery slope and are putting the landlord and his/her property at risk with tremendous liability. Plus you are putting yourself at risk of losing your own rented place because ALL leases prohibit subletting.
The new Home Escape platform requires that you upload proof of ownership if you are going to list. Airbnb should do the same thing. Renters have no business being Air hosts unless itâs a clear and permitted arrangement between the renter and the landlord.
Someone came here once complaining that new âregulationsâ in Santa Monica forced her out of doing Air, and she was a superhost. As we pressed her, it was clear she was evicted because she had been busted hosting. Eighteen guest reservations had to be cancelled. Rather unstable position to be in if you are sneaking Air, get busted and have to cancel eighteen reservations! Poor guests!
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Sorry I asked.
Based upon the information on this thread, I see no reason to think there is a difference in stability of hosts based upon rental v ownership. In my area it is obvious many renters are airbnb hosts and they have very good reviews. Maybe the expanded competition is the issue with some hosts.
The issue is renters that are doing Airbnb in violation of their lease. Not that they are renters but that they are âillegal.â In the example Kona just gave the host had over 200 good reviews. But she didnât have permission from her landlord to sub-let. Many HOAs donât permit it either. Others, particularly in other parts of the world, itâs common and allowed. It should be obvious that someone who is doing Air âillegallyâ could not possibly be as stable as a homeowner who is doing it legally.
Iâm putting illegally in quotes because I mean either itâs against the law or against the contract.
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Many HOAs and condos donât allow it whether by a renter or owner. Unless one is privy to the HOA documents and/or lease, how can we pass judgement?
I have had to deal with short-term rentals in a condo I managed. They were not welcomed, but their docs had no policy on the number of guests they could have a year, so they are looking to amend their documents. One of the things they are considering is having owners list the relatives they might have through the year so that they could come any time, but non-related guests would be limited to twice a year.
I thought I was clear. I pass judgement on people who are doing illegal things. Why? I guess I was socialized to believe we should follow the âsocial contractâ as well as any written ones. Any comments critical of renters on this forum should be read in that light. We ask if what they are doing is legal first and foremost. We donât have sympathy for people who are violating the law or their leases.
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Sandyb,
There are two separate issues you are referencing that donât have anything to do with each other-- Subletting in violation of your lease as a renter and an HOA prohibiting Air STR whether for renters or owners.
I know, right? Yet they get their feathers in a twist because they somehow think they should be allowed to do Air in violation of their lease. Like it is their right. Or that these are conveniently classified as âroommatesâ or âguests,â not paying customers.
Air should make EVERY new listing upload ownership proof to weed out the renters. I am not easy on anyone who comes here as a renter/host and tries to justify it. Not saying Sandyb is doing that, it is hard to tell⌠Just in general.
They always get mad at us for being the messenger!
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Based upon the information on this thread, I see no reason to think there is a difference in stability of hosts based upon rental v ownership. In my area it is obvious many renters are airbnb hosts and they have very good reviews. Maybe the expanded competition is the issue with some hosts.
Ugh. So tiresome. Spoken like someone who doesnât understand how liability law works. They are looking at it simply as âwho makes a better hostâ sort of thing. As a renter you do not have the legal right to STR your space. Period. Why? Because it is the property owner who is at risk if anything happens in that space - a trip, a fall, a fire, an accidental death, a mugging. The property owner is the one who will be sued. This is almost universal, but certainly the case in the US and Canada, although other cultures have a less enthusiastic approach to tort law.
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Ahhh⌠so what I am understanding then is it is not the stability of the hostâs property that is the issue, as much as the legality to have a dwelling that serves as short-term rental. Similar to those that arenât insured for that particular use of the property, those that are skirting local laws and ordinances, who may have issues related to homestead, non-complaint with condo or HOA governing documents, etc., things like that?
I would caution folks not to provide what could be construed as legal advice on this forum unless one is an attorney. Even then, jurisdiction and area of law practiced would make a difference. I donât mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) but might I suggest a more balanced response would be to begin with the word âTypicallyâ. IE:
âTypically, leases contain language that prohibits subleasing, therefore subleasing could present a problem to host, guest and owners.â
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@sandyb You seem to be dancing around the question as to whether the properties you manage are all legal. My point about my Air being âmore stableâ is that, indeed, I am the owner, and not only do I comply with my HOA rules but they have known from the beginning that I am doing STR (as was another owner, but she sold her place last year), I have STR insurance, and I am licensed and legal with my city. I have a friend who lives in a fancy loft building downtown. His HOA limits rentals to a minimum of three months. They found that a renter of a loft (not an owner) was sub-letting through Airbnb (his landloard did not know). They immediately put a âcease and desistâ order on his front door, effective immediately. Thus, he had to cancel all of his future bookings. As a guest, I would find value in the peace of mind knowing that the place I am booking weeks or months out is legal â in every sense of the word. Too many stories of Air guests showing up and either their booking is canceled last minute or the host has disappeared. Since you are defending you position, my guess is that not all, or maybe any, of your places are legal.
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I think one of the issues is that there is no definition of âlegalâ in most municipalities just yet. My city has the whole thing under review, as does Boston and Cambridge. There will be regulations that have yet to be written which will outline how and when STR is an option and how is needs to be licensed. The state decided NOT to collect an occupancy tax. Lots of generous political donors rent their houses on the cape for a couple of weeks every year and they screamed bloody-murder.
Some leases donât address sublets or STRâs. We have a ton of people who live in nearby cities who have lived in their apartments for 10, 20, 30 years and have no lease agreement but are instead tenant-at-will. When they rented their places, all those years ago, it was common to rent an extra room out to a local university student or a third cousin once removed. It is only recently that the sublet clauses started to be introduced to our local rental market. How many suddenly divorced moms used that extra room to keep the house for their kids? Thousands and in some of the very best communities.
I just donât think it is one thing or the other, black and white, for all locations. Slowly, the laws will catch up and it will become clearer over time, what constitutes a legal STR location.
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I hope they change their mind. Some peopleâs âfamilyâ are not necessarily blood related because they have disowned their blood relatives. It would be a shame that those people couldnât have their dearest friends visit just as often as the neighbor could have their daughter visit.
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Thatâs a good point. They discussed that and were going to have the attorney word it so it didnât restrict bonafide guests and friends that may visit, just those that came via craigslist, airbnb, etc. I had to move from the area to care for a relative, so didnât find out how it was ultimately worded.
I manage an HOA now that has rules that say only blood relatives and immediate family may live there. . LOL! Many other obsolete / unenforceable provisions- canât park in the street, but the streets are public roads, not private⌠just illogical rules that canât be enforced and/or are plain illegal.
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exactly the same as our HOA except they love to spend 
trying to enforce the unenforceable.
Yup⌠Someone doesnât like the messengers. You donât need a flipping law degree to know that what you are doing is a violation of your lease.
Exactly, @azreala ! I told them I would write the first violation letter, but charge for every one after that because it was a waste of my time to try to enforce the unenforceable. âLook, Iâll write letters all day long for $25 a letter, but itâs a waste of your money. You need to revise your documents.â They agreed to spend money revising their documents and to seek community input on changes and even put money in the budget to do so. Community associations can be great when the board listens to the members and the members are engaged.
The docs at my own HOA say nothing about short term rentals- they are old âtemplateâ developer docs. My neighbors are not only supportive, they had my back when I had the bad guest, but Iâm sure if someone complained, the manager would cite the catchall ânuisanceâ provision.
Sorry, didnât mean to get off topic. 
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Actually, itâs lawyers who shouldnât give legal advice on a discussion forum. THAT can get you into trouble according to the ABA rules, especially if you donât make it clear that it does not establish a attorney/client relationship. The rest of us can pontificate to our heartâs desire.
Personally, I am done on this topic. You renters want to STR your rental property? You go right ahead.
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Neither do ours, and even is the HOA decides to change then all current owners would be grand-fathered in. Iâm sure the HOA would find other fun things to fine us for instead.
@CatskillsGrrl Iâm absolutely not a renter, but was just stating that some leases allow for STRs, its somewhat common in SF. We know a few people who rent and ABB, and their landlords are fine with it. We also have a city regulated registration process, that requires property owners to sign off on the permit, so no way to cheat the system.
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True. Itâs hard to get this through to some boards. But those that really are hell-bent against STR will find ways to make life miserable for them. Some boards think they have more power than God.
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